LEST we forget, the source of the Allah controversy that resulted in churches, and a Catholic school, being torched and threatened did not begin on the streets. It did not begin with narrow-minded and ignorant Muslim pressure groups threatening to spill blood to assert their sole right to use “Allah”.
Lest we forget, it began with the 1986 government ban on the use by non-Muslims of the word “Allah”, and three others — “solat”, “Kaabah” and “Baitullah”. That’s the Barisan Nasional (BN) government we are talking about, the one that Umno leads.
Hence, lest we forget, the issue of non-Muslims using the word “Allah” would not be an issue at all in Malaysia if the Umno-led government had, to begin with, respected the legitimate rights of other faith communities. The “Allah” issue would not have spiraled into, to quote a friend, suburban terrorism — and it is terrorism when violence and intimidation are used towards achieving one’s goals — if the Home Ministry had not acted to deny the rights of non-Muslim citizens in the first place.
Today, in the aftermath of churches being torched and threatened, we hear Umno leaders, most notably Prime Minister and party president Datuk Seri Najib Razak denying that Umno is responsible for the situation we find ourselves in. We hear BN leaders condemning the violence committed against churches throughout the country. But as a lawyer friend commented on Twitter on 8 Jan 2010: “If you inflame passions, you cannot condemn violence.”
Doing what’s right
We know historically and culturally that firstly, “Allah” predates Islam; and secondly that it is used by non-Muslims in other Muslim countries with no restriction. So, the government is responsible for this narrow-minded and bigoted interpretation of who can use “Allah” in Malaysia. And by continuing to defend its position through a court appeal, the government is the one responsible for perpetuating the notion that Muslim rights will always supersede non-Muslim rights no matter if it is illogical, irrational or unconstitutional.
Are we surprised then that some groups will resort to acts of terrorism in Malaysia in order to assert their superiority at all costs? With the kind of government we have today — one that consistently does little to delegitimise violence in the name of Malay and Muslim superiority — I’m not at all surprised that there are those who think they can get away with using fear and intimidation to strip others of their rights. After all, the government is already doing it.
And even in this particular issue, Najib and his Umno ministers continue to resist doing the right thing instead of kow-towing to and fanning the flames of ignorance and fear among the bigots in our midst.
No more dialogue
In an attempt at damage control, the government and a couple of politicians including Umno Youth chief Khairy Jamaluddin have now called for an interfaith dialogue to resolve the issue.
But really, the time for dialogue is over. Meaningful dialogue can only happen when all parties to the dialogue are treated as equals. In the current scenario, I’ll wager that any “dialogue” will involve non-Muslims acceding to the perceived “sensitivities” and assumed rights of Muslims to own copyright to the word “Allah”.
And mind you, the use of the word “Allah” is not a “sensitive” issue, as top Umno leaders and the Umno-backed Utusan Malaysia are fond of restating repeatedly. It’s a copyright issue. And there is nothing at all that gives Muslims in Malaysia, or elsewhere, the copyright to use the word to refer to God and deny others the right to do so.
Indeed, there have been Muslims who demand that Christians should use the word “Tuhan” instead of “Allah” so that Muslims won’t be confused. But if Christians and Sikhs have not been confused thus far from the use of “Allah” in their worship, what makes Malaysian Muslims so special that the government should continue to perpetuate their ignorance about a word that pre-dates Islam?
Additionally, since copyright for the word does not belong to Muslims, what right do Muslim groups and politicians have to demand that non-Muslims can only use “Tuhan” and not “Allah”?
Instead of an interfaith dialogue where non-Muslims are likely to be asked to compromise on their rights to protect the false sensitivities of some Muslims, here’s what I would like to see happen. If Najib’s administration is really sincere about 1Malaysia, I would like to see the government host public forums and seminars for Muslims who may be confused about the word “Allah”.
Really, what’s stopping the Umno-led government from wanting to educate the ummah? Islam, after all, brought enlightenment to those who lived during zaman jahiliyah — the age of ignorance. If Umno is such a champion of Malay Muslims, why is it perpetuating this age of ignorance instead of educating Muslims while simultaneously respecting the rights of non-Muslims? Why is it enforcing the ban and appealing the High Court decision that nullified the ban when it is even stated in the Quran that “Allah” doesn’t just belong to Muslims?
Perchance the home minister, who was from Umno in 1986 when the ban was gazetted, and continues to be from Umno, is ignorant about historical fact and constitutional rights? Or perhaps Umno would rather Muslims remained ignorant? Or perhaps, Umno just doesn’t care about the legitimate rights of non-Muslims no matter the rhetoric about 1Malaysia?
BN-sponsored fascism
The West often likes to describe Malaysia as a “moderate Muslim state“. We are far from it. We have become a fascist state under BN rule. How so? Well, a state that actively and aggressively promotes racial and religious superiority is no different from the Nazi state that asserted that the Aryans were superior to the Jews. And the systematic use of violence, fear and draconian laws to diminish and suppress the legitimate rights of minority groups can only be described as fascist.
The BN will, of course, deny responsibility for the way the “Allah” issue is playing out. The government will provide financial aid to churches to prove to Christians that it does not condone these acts of violence. It will now be open to interfaith forums, where before it banned any such attempts by groups such as Article 11.
Too little too late, I’m afraid. Make no mistake: the BN government started this. And by denying culpability now and stubbornly refusing to do what is right despite the historical, cultural and religious evidence, the BN is responsible for the rising fascism in our midst.
Is this the kind of Malaysia we want to live in?
Is this the kind of government we want? 
Jacqueline Ann Surin thinks peace-loving citizens should set the benchmarks for what constitutes 1Malaysia instead of letting the government spin its public relations exercise. What would you like to see happening for you to believe that Najib’s 1Malaysia is for real?
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Non-partisan says
The roots of fascism are found in every human being.
While Umno’s behaviour and policies have attributes similar to fascism, is the PR immune from this plague?
I agree with your suggestion of the government holding educational forums. But after calling them fascists, I wonder whether Najib will heed your call.
Farouq Omaro says
Part of the problem stems from Muslims’ ignorance* of Christianity. Many do not know of Christianity but like to speak of it. For example there was this one person who told me that Christians worship three Gods – the Father, the Son and the Mother! Then there is this other person who said that the Injil (Gospel) mentioned in the Quran is the Bible! There are many other instances. This is not helped by the government’s misinformation on Christianity or any other religions for that matter. For example since I was young I was told that Buddhists and Hindus worship statues! But do you hear non-Muslims accusing Muslims of worshipping calligraphy? No, because they know Muslims are not worshipping calligraphy. This shows that non-Muslims understand Islam more than most Muslims understand non-Islamic religions. Muslims need to understand other faiths from the viewpoint of those who profess those faiths.
*not all Muslims
Maz says
There is no monopoly on Allah: http://bit.ly/931sR9
Robert says
Jacqueline, you hit the nail right on the head. Umno, we are not stupid. We have been tolerating your racial abuses for too long and we are not going to take it anymore. All your racial crap is simply to hold to power and it make the Malay [Malaysians] scared of changing the government. I think many Malays are smarter now, and are also tired of race-based politics. Let’s change the government in the next general election!
Terence says
Undoubtly this is a polarising issue that is centralised on race rather than religion. Religion is being used to justify a racial policy. Making sure that no more rights should be given up is a stand that should NOT be backed down from. We do have to address the racial issue in the country and how to change the equation so that all Malaysians will not get pulled into this trap.
To address this issue we need to:
1) Understand and solve the real world issues facing a majority of Malay [Malaysians] in our country. We CANNOT afford anymore racial based presumptions of “I take care of mine, and you take care of yours”. Obviously the government has failed in provide a stable, nurturing environment for a majority of its citizens.
– Low income
– Poor education
– Limited oppurtunities in the commercial sector
2) Come up with proper legislation similar to a Race Relations act with clear guidelines on discrimination
3) Have a fair judiciary and prosecute hate crimes in those courts. ISA should be abolished. A sign of a mature society is being able to have these discussions instead of sweeping it under the carpet.
4) Race and Religion discussions. Real ones. Not government-sponsored but between real religious leaders. Positive reinforcement of faith between parties.
5) De-constructing the current siege mentality of the current Malay [Malaysian] population by showing the positive benefits of a needs, social and merit-based society. I would go so far as to look into socialist-type programs that look at re-training, re-educating, counselling and hiring.
Dr. Adrian Wong says
Excellent write-up as usual, Jacqueline. It’s appalling to see the BN government twist and turn in their shameless attempts to deny responsibility for this debacle. It is obvious to all (but themselves) that they not only poured the fuel, but also lit the fire that started it all!
If we want to change things, we have to stop voting in the same cabal of greedy and corrupt politicians that do not seem to mind tearing this country apart, as long as it keeps them in power. They continue to pander to the extremists despite history’s many examples of disastrous outcomes when other politicians did the very same thing!
Instead of promoting 1Malaysia, we should promoting Save Malaysia! If we love our country, we will have to stand up and save it. Another term under the BN government will destroy this country we ALL call home.
ng boon tat says
“If Umno is such a champion of Malay Muslims, why is it perpetuating this age of ignorance instead of educating Muslims…”
Because if the Malay Muslims become clever, then they won’t need umno anymore. Simple strategy, isn’t it? A case of self preservation…
mohan says
Although this started in 1986, the issue was brought back by Syed Hamid Albar, our previous home minister. I am surprised [he] cannot understand the facts behind the use of the word “Allah” by non-Muslims and even in Arab countries it is accepted. I heard he is a lawyer by training. As he too is from my home state, Johor, I am well aware of all his [doings] in Kota Tinggi. He was a disgrace as a foreign minister and did more damage during his short term as home minister. If we want to shine as a country, we should first remove such creatures from the political landscape.
msian_tux_lover says
To start with I would prefer to call them the ruling regime rather than government. In Malay, the word “government” is translated as “kerajaan”. I would not like to sully the good names of Their Majesties by calling this collection of [stooges] and racists a government.
M.K. says
Very well said! In the wake of the present controversy over the use of the word “Allah”, the federal government should put a temporary ban on our Negaraku, where the word “Tuhan” appears. Similarly, the Johor government should do the same with their state anthem where the word “Allah” appears!
AainaA says
Malaysians are advised to read the Quran al Karim in reference to this recent insolence in Surah 32, Verse 15.
Reality is one (Ahad); owing to illusion, it appears to be [with] multiple attributes and changes. It always remains unchanged. Allah tabaraka wa taala is not limited to a particular sect – as universal as Islam ad-din is, more so is the One who brought the universe into being.
Freedom says
Holding any government accountable … is critical for a dynamic and progressive Malaysia. […]
Lainie says
Well, before 1Malaysia can be real, Najib and the party he leads need to go.
Cheah Sing Hwa says
Well written, and agreed.
Nicholas Aw says
A bold and daring write-up Jacqueline. I admire you for your guts in putting your views across. You hit the nail right on the head.
It is indeed sad but true that the use of the word ‘Allah’, which should have been a non-issue, has become the top news both locally and internationally. Rightly so that the BN/Umno government is solely to be blamed.
We see with each passing day how non-Muslims have been “persecuted” by a lot of silly conditions imposed on them in wanting to practise their faith. The government says “you can build houses of worship but they must operate from shop houses, the structures must not be higher than a mosque”, and many other unreasonable conditions … What the government is doing is like allowing non-Muslims to cross the river to get to the other side, but you cannot ride on the boat that takes you across.
All religions teach us to practise good values. Unfortunately, some of their followers do not practise what they preach and resort to whatever it takes to defend their faith, even to the extent of ‘jihad’. Thanks to the BN/Umno for kickstarting the problem!
lkl says
Yes, I too bet that “dialogue” means non-Muslims must succumb to Malay [Malaysians] or risk being accused of causing greater social unrest by not being sensitive to Muslims. I won’t waste time requesting a public forum or what-not from this government. What the BN needs is a kick in the butt, and we need to usher in a government that will educate Malay Muslim [Malaysians] how to earn respect the right way.
Om says
Well written, JAS!
Jayenjr says
The “protesters” in the above photo look more like hired thugs than the kind of guys who pray five times a day…?
What would I like to see happen so that I might believe Najib’s 1Malaysia is for real?
Well, for any initiative to be successful, it must begin with credibility and integrity on the part of the driver/initiator.
Does Najib inspire these traits? Let’s gauge that by looking at some of the tangible events that have taken place just before/since he assumed post as PM.
1. Altantuya
2. Perak grab
3. Teoh Beng Hock death
4. Theft of jet engine
5. Alleged RM600k illegal fund transfer to wife
6. Planned grab of Sgor
7. Drop in Transparency Index
8. Khir Toyo mansion
9. Forcing Petronas to accept Omar Mustapha’s appointment
10. Tutup fail on VK lingam
11. Flip flop on RPGT
12. Support for corrupt by-election candidates
13. No action on convicted money politic UMNO candidates – Khairy & Ali Rustam
14. Drop in FDI
15. Increased migration out of Msians
16. Continue to allow BTN/Utusan to ber-maharajalela
17. Re-appoint an under-performing IGP.
18. PKFZ (still no action on the biggies?)
19. Bala’s re-appearance
20. Ambiguous 1 Malaysia
21. Awarding of prime land to Naza for pittance.
Wow.
21 tangible events and practically all of this in less than 12 months of being in office!!
On the contrary, do any of us feel an extra RM1 in our pockets since Najib announced his stimulus package? If anything, money is leaving our shores. See http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2234&Itemid=229
Today, after the attack on our churches, Najib looks as lost as Badawi did when he was PM.
1Malaysia? Najib ?
Whaddya think?
midniteblues says
Why only ban the Herald from publishing the word [“Allah”]? Why not ban the internet entirely in Malaysia? Would not the Malays be confused if they stumbled across Christian or Sikh websites using the word? Are the Malays so weak in their faith that they need the government to protect them all the time?
H Lee says
This, Surin, has got to be one of the most logical, clear and succinctly written articles on this whole issue that I’ve read thus far. Good job.
Marie says
Excellent piece Jacqueline! Couldn’t have described it better myself. Agree with you 100%. There should be religious seminars providing education to the Muslims so they are more aware of their own history and more understanding of other races and religions. It’s a pity that they were made to believe that everyone else to going to hell besides themselves. However, it’s hardly their fault and they react in the only way they know how.
Perhaps the name change might not be immediate, but the government should slowly wean Malaysian Muslims to start accepting the fact that Allah was a NOUN used by everyone in the Middle East way before Islam was founded.
Whether or not non-Muslims chant it out loud on the streets is a different matter, but at least the Herald can use it and it’s not like Muslims will pick up and read the Herald anyway! I’m Catholic and I don’t even read it, much less those from other religions!
MXV says
“If Najib’s administration is really sincere about 1Malaysia, I would like to see the government host public forums and seminars for Muslims who may be confused about the word “Allah”.”
Well said!
Vinod says
I blame not the BN government for this. I blame the morons who keep voting them to power again and again. I also blame those who are not bothered to register as voters and exercise their votes wisely.
Katie Chan says
Vinod – I agree with you – 100%. This is so embarrassing for our Muslim community at large. If this is the government they choose, then it is time for them to ponder …
Flag of Truth says
The Court of Appeal has already made its decision. We need to move on 🙂
Jacqueline Ann Surin says
We need to move on even if the appelate court’s judgement was wrong in law and reason, resulted in an injustice, leads us down the road of impunity, and makes Malaysian Muslims look like fools among fellow Muslims in the rest of the world? Wow! The scary part is that they are people who think exactly like you who run the government.
Flag of Truth says
@ Jacqueline Ann Surin
The court has decided. It’s better to read the judgement. Don’t be emotional Jacqueline. 🙂
Jacqueline Ann Surin says
I did read the judgement. And you’re still not answering the question. You would subscribe fully to a judgement that is made based on bad law and reason, is unjust, makes fools of Malaysian Muslims among the Muslim world, and was in part copied and pasted from an internet comment? Pls answer the question instead of deflecting attention. My state, whether emotional or not, is irrelevant to this discussion. What is relevant is the quality of the judgement and the impact it has.
Adam says
FoT,
Trust you to come out of nowhere to give your comments again on the hot issue and with a smiley too.
Yes, we should have moved on when the High Court gave its judgement at the end of 2009 and we would have also moved on even after a few churches had been damaged, with one completely destroyed.
But, fortunately or unfortunately, the government had to appeal against the High Court judgement and it took almost 4 long years for the court to hear the appeal. In any other appeal, the case would have been thrown out of court for the long delay and for justice denied.
So, the Court of Appeal has made its judgement, rightly or wrongly, depending on which side you are on. But fret not, Christians will surely move on but to the next level, that is. Let us hear what the Federal Court has to say on this issue. We hope the Federal Court will not take as long to hear the case. Otherwise, East Malaysian Christians may bring forward their case to the Sabah and Sarawak courts.
And trust me, there will be no end to this issue until the government stops this indefensible and untenable ban of the word or any other word for that matter.
Flag of Truth says
Yes.. let’s move on 🙂
Krishna M Singh says
Bravo Jacqueline! You are my kind of gal! However, you will have to be taken into protective custody for your own good. You truth will hurt many confused and shallow minds. There is no need to hold forums for the Muslims. They can repeat at every Friday prayers that Allah predates Islam until all the confused minds know what it means.
cynical malaysian says
Hear! Hear!!
daniel says
A sacred name/word is not sacred if it can be used for anything by anyone.
For the devoted monotheist, the only endgame is Armageddon. The faithful goes to heaven, the faithless goes to hell.
When the time comes, you want to be able to face your maker and know that you did everything possible to protect, spread His gospel, and punish those who insulted His name. All the holy books have angry God stories and tales of wars. When this great war is finally over, there is a promise of a total victory, no compromises. All the wicked will rot. All those who followed the wrong path shall be damned. Heaven would be hell if everyone gets to join the party.
The fate of the nation-state or race is actually insignificant when the really big picture is taken into account.
In religious terms, the point that the word ‘Allah’ is used by others, or when and where it originates is not as important as how it should be used.
Religion operates by limiting and ordering what [humans] can or cannot do/say/think…only then could there be a sense of direction or a right/wrong.
There will be no closure to this matter as the two religions have already decided that in the end, victory is a matter of faith.
Why are the secularists and humanists amongst us being dragged into this madness?
The histories of nation-states are just one-liners compared to the tragi-comedic story [humans] have had with their God(s).
wan zaharizan says
It was never banned outright, it was gazetted as a minor law in December 1986. It is a peraturan or procedural right which could be rescinded or followed by the minister concerned, thus up to 2008 this ‘peraturan’ was not followed until 2008. From 1986 it was a cold war but although verbally the government had no objection yet this peraturan was never officially rescinded. It was to satisfy the Malay [Malaysian] hawks as you say – no more discussion – which to me is the right move. We should return to the old status quo.
bontakun says
Irregardless of whether Umno is involved or not, Najib must take responsibility for the church attacks. He’s our prime minister. Anything that happens on his watch is HIS responsibility. That he refuses to accept any at all speaks much about his character.
John Lam says
A well written article. The government makes Malaysian Muslims appear to be the world’s most gullible Muslims whose faith are weak and would be shaken to their core by the mere use of the word “Allah” by other faiths.
By comparison, the faith of Muslims in other Muslim majority nations seem to be fundamentally stronger and they are able to differentiate between the “Allah” in the Qur’an and the “Allah” in the Holy Bible unlike their brethren in Malaysia.
How can then BN’s Umno politicians and Muslim NGOs claim that Muslims are being suppressed and threatened, when the home minister, who issues and signs orders to ban publications and order detentions has always been from Umno, and the police that wield guns and cannons have always been dominated by Malays?
Have the non-Muslims of this country ever been in any position to threaten Islam and its adherents? The answer is a resounding no.
mike says
It’s really pitiful for the Christians. It’s like you have been calling your father ‘Abba’ through your entire life and by your forefathers and suddenly someone uses a strong arm and comes on to you and says, “You can no longer call your father ‘Abba’ because it’s exclusive only for our father, call him some other name instead…” This is very selfish and inhuman to a people that is peace loving and has not done any harm to anyone.
Raja Hanim says
Jacqueline, thats the way. Tell it like it is.
onesoul says
‘Do not accept anything based upon mere reports,
traditions or hearsay,
Nor upon the authority of religious texts,
Nor upon mere reasons and arguments,
Nor upon one’s own inference,
Nor upon anything which appears to be true,
Nor upon one’s own speculative opinion,
Nor upon another’s seeming ability,
Nor upon the consideration:
‘This is our Teacher.’
‘But, when you know for yourselves the certain things are unwholesome and bad: tending to harm yourself of others, reject them.
‘And when you know for yourselves that certain things are wholesome and good: conducive to the spiritual welfare of yourself as well as others, accept and follow them.’
JK says
Yes, it’s time BN stop denying that they didn’t have anything to do with this.
Edward S says
First and foremost Umno should ban of the internet. If anything that can truly confuse the Malay Muslims in this country it surely will be the use of the internet. The internet was invented by the Satanic West and can be seen as a tool of the West to confuse the Muslims.
You can’t possibly ban the Bible from using the word “Allah” altogether. In the internet version of the Malay language Bible Umno will not able to enforce such stupid and ridiculous rulings. The internet is 100% uncensored. Everyone knows just how uncensored the internet is.
By the same logic of keeping Malay Muslims from being confused then all Malay Muslims in Malaysia should be not be allowed to use the internet. We all know that the real reason Umno is going ahead to appeal is that it is hoping all the Malay Muslims from the opposition parties will support Umno as their champion. It is hoping PAS will unite with Umno. This isn’t going to work. PAS and my many Muslims friends are sick of [Umno], headed by […] Najib. We Malaysians will not accept religious extremism of any kind from any religion in Malaysia. We will not be intimidated by religious extremism.
azali zain says
Surah 112: AL – IKHLAS
In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.
Say : He is Allah the One and Only,
Allah is the Self-Sufficient (independent of all, while all depend on Him). He begets not, nor is He the begotten (he has no child, nor is He a child of any one). And there is none comparable to Him.
This is the theological teachinng to differentiate Allah in Islam and Allah mentioned in any other religions. This surah has been memorised by almost 99.99% Muslims since the early ages of 4-5-6 years old. So by saying that the use of the word Allah in other faiths will confused them is pure bluff and nonsence. This is clearly the work of a demon trying to save itself from extinction.
The tolerence aptitudes of Muslims toward other religions was clearly defined in the following Surah:
SURAH 109 : AL – KAFIRUN
In the name of Allah, the Compassionte, the Merciful.
Say : O unbelievers, I worship not that whom you worship, nor will you worship that whom I worship. I shall never worship those detities whom you worship, nor will you ever worship Allah, whom I worship, to you be your religion, and to me mine.
The massage is clear for Muslims as regard to the practices of other faiths and by saying that Islam in Malaysia is under threat is a blatant lie with ulterior motives.
Vincenzo says
1. If only Najib was put on trial […] for the murder of Altantunya.
2. The IGP put on trial for all the SDs against him.
3. The constitution stated clearly [equality for] all races and not as per the current vagueness of having an Indian or Indonesian Muslim later morph to become a Malay.
4. A former premier trialed and jailed for racism and religous bigotry.
5. A ban to keep religion out of politics. Never should the twains meet.
Will number 3 and 5 ever happen, even by any other political party? Dream on.
Groundnuts says
The BN or Umno more appropriately should reflect back on their action and stand. If they are sincere which I doubt to my last cent, they should respect all other religions and races and never commit to one race or religion alone. Look at the infrastructure within the government, how many other races can you see in a typical government department? Are they speaking for real or simply fooling their own race too by their pretentious looks of sympathy? Muslim or non-Muslim, come the next general election, they will know that their hoodwinking days are over. In the meanime, they should curb the growth of terrorism from being embedded into the minds of the people in their exploitation of this “Allah” issue. God save Malaysia and its people.
Freedom says
Agree with your post Robert, 12 Jan. Malay [Malaysians] are smarter today. With the different activist platforms that they can engage in to speak for what is best for Malaysia today and what is needed to be done now, more Malay [Malaysians] have restored their dignity to no end. They suddenly sound [like] more intelligent, thinking Malay [Malaysians] with hearts. I get goose-bumps writing this, seeing more Malay [Malaysians], standing by the windows, heads outside shouting in unison “we are not taking it any more”. We want change. Either you do it now or we replace you with someone else who can. It’s your call, PM.
EL says
Jacqueline, you make us proud to be Malaysian! Your article gives us the courage and reason to resist fascism and racial bigotry. I have a dream that one day, Malaysians regardless of their color, race and religion will walk free hand in hand. They will not be judged by the color of their skin or religion but by the content of their character! Freedom to choose Who (Allah/Tuhan) and what we believe!
krish says
I have been a fence-sitter for many years, not been political and taking a neutral stance all these years. After seeing how the BN government especially Umno and its mouthpiece Utusan Malaysia went about inciting Muslims and Malays in the country on the issue of Allahm I have decided that it’s time I stand up. I will make sure not only my vote but all my family members and friends votes go to the party that can protect minority rights.
OneMsia says
Whatever it is, I will never agree. Yes, the use of the word “Allah” is not only for Muslims. As we live in Malaysia, a multiracial and multi-religious country, such an issue will not be taken for granted by the Muslims. It may cause confusion among the Muslims […].
These people just want Malaysia to be in chaos by testing Muslim patience by bringing up these sensitive issues. Does it make any difference if they don’t use the word “Allah”?? It’s a shame when a Muslim doesn’t support and stand for their own religion and let it be made fun of by other religions. Yes, non-Muslims in Malaysia have started doing it through their blogs, Facebook and daily speech. They are laughing at the Muslims because they are not in our shoes.
===================================================
@OneMsia
You are, of course, entitled to disagree with the use of “Allah” by non-Muslims. But just because you are entitled to disagree doesn’t mean you have the right to impose your decision on others. Unless Malaysian Muslims have copyright over “Allah” — and neither you nor other Muslims do — your opinion cannot be imposed on others.
Does it make a difference if non-Muslims can no longer use “Allah”? Why don’t you try asking Muslims that question? Would it affect THEM if they could no longer use the word because a Christian majority imposed that on them? Since “Allah” was historically used by Christians, Sikhs and Muslims in Malaysia, why should Christians and Sikhs have to give up their right because SOME Muslims are prone to confusion. Why should others be held ransom by the ignorance of some Muslims? Why do non-Muslims have to give up their legitimate right to use the word just because some Muslims are afraid of God-knows-what?
You think Muslim patience is being tested? How about considering how non-Muslims feel? It’s non-Muslims’ rights which are being unfairly taken away from them, and you actually think it is Muslim patience which is being tested?
Jacqueline Ann Surin
eric says
When a few extremists protest in favor of Malay [Malaysian] rights, the ludicrous Malaysian media extrapolates it as if the entire Malay [Malaysian population] is with them. The non-Muslims have been very civilized and this has been abused by the perpetrating lowlife extremists whose claims are ridiculous and laughable.
cv says
The whole Allah issue is a diversion tactic deployed by Umno to sway the public’s attention from their major scandals and corruptions:
PKFZ, jet engine thefts, the Alantuya murder, TBH murder, submarine scams, BTN racism etc. It is only the rakyat who are too dumb to be preoccupied by this petty Allah copyrights issue. Umno is clearly committing blasphemy by claiming Allah as God as some sort of trophy!
eric says
Brilliantly written – Umno seems like they have a hidden agenda to somehow make this country a minimum 80% Muslim landscape and will do whatever they can. Bring in Muslims, discourage non-Muslims to procreate, give citizenship to Muslim settlers, second class its non-Muslim populace and the list goes on. Just ask the non-Muslims.
anak malaysia says
1Malaysia is just a WORD. I never believe it because the actions are different from the WORD. That is [the] BN way of doing things. Always says this and that but the ACTION is totally different.
Goh says
This government of thieves, operating in a culture of corruption. will not listen to anyone. Its only interest is power. Pure and simple. The rest is nothing more than a public relations exercise.
ash says
It is said, and truly so, humans are civilised animals. But time and again it is proved that humans are more cruel, greedy and selfish than the carnivorous.
Individuals fight over petty jealousies, lust, land, wealth and women, but that is God-given negativity to individuals. It is [human-constructed] religions that institutionalise such hatred, pettiness and lust.
No religions are Godly, they are all [human-constructed] and spread hatred (disguised as benevolence – sweetened speeches and verses but always end up with us being superior and the only way to go to heaven, the rest will go to hell – and even make this earth a hell).
People of the world, wake up, and discard all so-called superior religions – Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism and so on. Just love your neigbours, all humans and even animals, flora and fauna. Be kind to all and leave footprints behind which generations to follow will be proud to talk about and not hate us for spreading hate in the name of all fake religions, which in any case are big businesses – Allah or Lord, immaterial to me. They are businesses – a rose called with whatever name does not stop smelling good.
Stop the nonsense NOW!
Citizens of the world wake up.
B-Raw says
You spewed so many shrill remarks and countless hyperbole. If Malaysia was a fascist state, shouldn’t you be in jail by now for speaking [up]? And what about the Chinese-dominated state to the south?
Gopal Raj Kumar has written a good repartee to all the above mentioned questions you asked. But then again, when one is riding the high horse, it’s hard to see the ground. […]
So, it’s all the fault of Umno-Nazi, huh? Your political ideology aside, what happened to the 200,000 people on Facebook alone rejecting the usage of Allah [by non-Muslims]? What about their voices? Don’t they have the right and space to speak their minds or people like you [find] their voices unimportant to the whole debate?
And, what about the liberals in Europe, are they fascist, too for rejecting the term “Allah” from being used by Catholics? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20279326/
“A survey in the Netherlands’ biggest-selling newspaper De Telegraaf on Wednesday found 92 percent of the more than 4,000 people polled disagreed with the bishop’s view, which also drew ridicule.
“Sure. Let’s call God ‘Allah’. Let’s then call a church a mosque and pray five times a day. Ramadan sounds like fun,” Welmoet Koppenhol wrote in a letter to the newspaper.
kahseng says
I dedicate this song to UMNO (never thought I’d do such a thing):
“We didn’t start the fire,” by Billy Joel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR-A4QFHZBA&feature=fvst
or http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=we+didn't+start+the+fire
The opposite of fascism is libertarianism. Libertarianism is often misunderstood as selfish and cold-hearted. But asking the government to be good means giving it more power (to tax, to control, to centralize information). And if there ever is a slippery slope, giving government power is the only slippery slope to fascism.
While we are alert to the idea of danger from government, here are two pieces on why government fails its final and core responsibility: protecting us.
Can the Government Keep Us Safe?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/napolitano/napolitano13.1.html
Does the State Protect Us?
http://mises.org/daily/3947
khalid says
A confident Muslim would not be mistake his/her Allah for another. Here’s a link that provides the characteristics of a confident Muslim:
http://rantingsbymm.blogspot.com/2010/01/confident-people-do-not-get-confused.html
Habib RAK says
Hi Jacqueline, I second the observation that what is lacking is education. The Umno/BN government prefers to keep the Muslims in Malaysia ignorant and from learning the richness of the Quran and the right path of Islam. The only reason they do this is to safeguard their selfish position. Apart from your valid argument that the word Allah predates Islam, there is even spiritual demand within Islam that all (Muslims and non-Muslims) be allowed to call the maker Allah. In fact they are encouraged to do so. Unfortunately, the depth of this understanding and learning is not permitted openly in Malaysia. Anyway, on balance, the so-called men of the cloth of both sides (Islam and Christianity) are equally adamant of their positions. You may be aware that the issue of Allah was also opposed by fellow Christian priests when it was suggested that Christians refer to god as Allah in the Netherlands. You may read this at this link http://www.christianpost.com/article/20070823/is-calling-the-christian-god-allah-wrong/index.html
All the same, for me, there is only one God and that is ALLAH. And everyone is welcome to call Allah. The more the merrier. After all, as Muslims we refer to Allah as the Rabl Alamin (the God of all the universe). So it makes no sense to say a non-Muslim is not a creation of Allah. See what I mean? Cheers.
Galloway says
The European Christian Missionaries who studied Christianity in the Middle East were the first to introduce the word “ALLAH” to Sabah and Sarawak.
R-X says
Well what do you know. Here’s the best article I’ve stumbled upon since this issue started to arise. It’s not the goverment who is responsible for this but the person in charge of the goverment.
This issue started just because Umno wanted to slowly Islamise this country. Now they want to ban certain words from being used by other religions or races, after this maybe they would ban the building of churches or temples, then they would ban other religions in Malaysia. This issue is just the kickstart, many more issues will arise sooner or later if other minority groups, races or religions do not take action.
I’ve never seen the word Allah [being] patented by Muslims, have you? This is nothing more than political issue.
Anthony Chow says
I think it’s about time the Government organise religious forums and educate the Muslims in our country on the actual history of our religions and not make it a racial problem. It seems real sad that many Muslims out there still think that each of us has a different GOD, when all actually pray to the same. Wake up and realise, move forward so that the tribes of Hishmael/Ismail and Isaac/Ishak may unite and fullfill ALLAH’s covenant with Abraham/Ibrahim.
language says
Solve the problem by “FORCING” the Muslims here take up Arabic, the original language of the Quran, and let the other non-Muslims learn their religion through non-original, translated, or perhaps twisted languages.
Ernesto Newell says
Very well written piece that I hope the PM will get to read and learn something from, instead of coming out with all the gibberish about not being responsible. If the responsible minister had brains instead of kidneys in his head, this matter would not have arisen at all. But as you have correctly articulated, the BN government wants to keep the Muslim faithfuls ignorant and pliant to their mischievous intents. I hope they come to their senses soon!
abingkasan says
To me, Allah is God. I was educated in Bahasa Malaysia. From young, I was taught that Allah is God. I went to church liturgies or services conducted in Bahasa Malaysia. And I had always prayed to Allah Bapa. I remembered composing hymns with the word Allah all over them. And the choir that I trained emerged champions in a few district- and state-level church competitions. And I will forever use Allah in my personal life.
justme says
This Umno government will stop at nothing to remain in power. In the latest news, they have managed to drag the Selangor Sultan to support them. For those who still harbour any hope for 1Malaysia, please read thoughtsintangents.blogspot.com – the article entitled “Torched churches…reaping what is sown”. This son of Sanusi Junid’s blog reflects the true 1Malaysia that Umno is advocating.
awangkassim says
Politics should be set aside. These are dangerous times, where the concern is about safety and security for all people in Malaysia. Religion is sensitive and it can trigger a “huge firebomb” among the people.The government is fiddling with sentiments, which can explode violently. Malaysia is too beautiful to burn!
Malaysian malu says
[How is the politician who] loved to bathe his keris with Chinese blood [different from] the Gestapo of Hitler?
Soon, it will be like living in Germany with selective executions.
What do you expect from the person in charge who lost two known jet engines while under his watch as Defence Minister. Now, Malaysians are losing Malaysia under his watch!
1Malaysia? Hahahaha. More like, Oh! NoMalaysia.
Matt says
The PM and HM say that they cannot control the acts of church attacks by the fanatics who are still living in the country. It means two things: (1) they are too weak to take action and (2) they are saying civil commotion is not their responsibility. Who is running the government now? Trouble makers and hooligans? Time to wake up!
tiger says
These Umno politicians’ remarks not only incite racial and religious hatred but also create political and economic chaos and racial divide in this country. The […] thing is Najib and gang did nothing to stop these […] fanatics from terrorising the church. We peace-loving Malaysians cannot allow such a beautiful country to be run and ruined by IDIOTS and also a new breeding ground for ‘terrorists’. What it takes for EVIL to triumph is for GOOD men to do nothing. GE13 people power!
klee says
I am a freethinker and I have no God but I plan to go to church this coming Sunday to give them my moral support. I went to church twice in my sophomore year in university, the coming Sunday will be the third time after 12 years.
klee says
Agree with Dr Adrian Wong: “Greedy and corrupt politicians that do not seem to mind tearing this country apart, as long as it keeps them in power.” 45 years ago they kicked Singapore out because of the prospect that the PAP might rule Malaysia.
Anonymous Coward says
I find it interesting that all of a sudden Jawi makes an appearance when it’s been relegated to the museums for novelty and those curious enough to seek it.
mycuntree says
You are absolutely right. The BN government in general, and Umno in particular is purely responsible for this assault on the Christian faith. That we all know. It’s a wonder of the BN/Umno mentality that they don’t.
It is time to save this country by overthrowing the current government at the earliest opportunity, and eventually put those responsible for this Malaysian debacle by putting them against the wall.
Anak Kampong says
Actually Umno Malay [Malaysians] do not hate or [want to] ban the use of the word Allah only, but [it looks like they] intend to abolish other religions in Malaysia. [Apparently] what they want is for all Malaysians to be converted to Islam.
Actually they hate Israel, but because they could do nothing to Israel, that’s why they punish Christians by banning the Bible and so forth.
Malays in Malaysia, particularly Umno members, misunderstand Christian followers in Malaysia. They might have thought that Malaysian Christians support Israel against Palestine – no no at all. We know that Palestine and Israel and also the other Arab countries are from the same tribes. They were from Abraham.
Fooji says
As much as I would like to agree with you in condemning the almost imperial Umno, I wonder how many of those in power, policy makers and community leaders, will share your thoughts on this. There was never a 1Malaysia. Najib is just talking cock.
lee wee tak says
I agree with Najib’s assertion that Umno is not responsible for the church bombing because I hold the BN administration responsible.
Ok, they may not be the ones actually committing the act but they are at least responsible for the environment and sequence of events
Look at the decades of writings in Utusan Malaysia and indoctrination by BTN. There is a huge percentage of emphasizing on differences and perceived threats rather than notes on accommodation and harmony. Why create this siege mentality?
The Badawi administration prohibited [the formation of an] inter-faith council, [which is now] belatedly put up as a suggestion.
For an administration that is so powerful – backed by the police, armed forces, ISA, OSA, Printing Presses Act, Sedition Act – that has imprisoned/detained political opponents, armed terrorist, news reporters, candle-holders, coffee drinkers/cyclists etc., suddenly it went limp and clueless because someone wanted to stage a protest and the almighty administration worried about some emotion that got out of hand.
Perpetrators of mischief will be bolder if they know reprisal or punishment is not forthcoming.
The subsequent inaction and flip-flopping by PDRM directly under the control of the BN administration is a fundamental statement about the degree of interest the BN administration has in preventing the situation from deteriorating.
The poor attempt by the Home Minister to explain to the foreign and more enlightened representatives from the various embassies was embarrassing. Hishammuddin said M’sia is different (apples to apples, oranges to oranges) but did not adequately explain how Malaysia is different and to whom Malaysia can be compared with. M’sia too unique? Whatever Malaysia has become is a direct result of 50++ years of the BN’s administration and stupid voters!
aaw says
I would think that there would be mass protests internationally against the church if this was REALLY an Islamic issue? Was there any? Obviously not.
majuil says
I agree with you about the present goverment’s attitude but for the use of the word ALLAH the Christian Council of Malaysia should take note that in the Bible it teaches us to live in harmony and peace with others. Why bother so much about the words since we can use others words? Are we nearer to God if we use the word Allah in churches rather than the word TUHAN? I don’t think so. Are we really ready to give up the harmony and future of our faithful just because of this word? For instance, your father asks you and your brother to choose his two cars – a Proton Saga or a Toyota Vios. I’m sure both of you will choose to take the Vios and neither of you will want to give it up because then both of you will be hurt and most of all your father. No more harmony and happiness in the house where we’ve been living for so many years. Let’s live in PEACE. Shalom.
Dudley says
Well said, kudos.
Lim Swee Bin says
To believe in Najib’s 1Malaysia, one simple measure – reconstruction, to make ALL Malaysians EQUAL. The US did that – to place African Americans on par with whites. The civil rights movement has culminated with Obama as US President.
The time has come to recognize all of us who have stayed on in this land – the land we were born to and the land we chose not to leave. We are all Malaysians. Only with equality, can true fraternity come.
khairul fairul says
On what ground do you compare BN (Umno) to the Nazis? I’m confused.
Pilgrim says
The Home Minister should […] release the 15,000 copies of Al-Kitab.
M.O.T.U says
“Meaningful dialogue can only happen when all parties to the dialogue are treated as equals.”
With religion, there can be no equals. My god will always be better than your god and for not worshiping my god you will go to hell. How can there ever be equality? If all are equal, then it would not have mattered which faith you profess, and heaven’s door would be open to all those who are deserving, as opposed to it being exclusively reserved to those belonging only to a particular faith. How would you treat other religions equally when your own preaches hell for those not of your own religion? […]
Wong CS says
Just for some balance, I’d like to see the Catholics here publicly condemn the Vatican for attempting to copyright anything to do with the Pope (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/21/vatican_copyright/).
Personally, I disagree with the restrictions on the usage of the word Allah, but I’d like to see if all these self-righteous outpouring is a result of unbiased support of free speech rights and constitutional law or just selfish protection of “what I want to do/say”.
Benjamin Skye says
I agree. Like I have been saying to my friends, “It is hypocrisy for the government to condemn the acts of violence whilst at the same time advocate the very cause of the acts of terror.”
I found this article to be very educated and enlightening. Thoroughly enjoyed the read. Good job. I guess all I can say is, there may be a day where all we can do is to go looking for that “1Malaysia” somewhere else. Voting with our feet may perhaps be the most democratic choice we have left given the current state of affairs.
Freedom says
Re: Azali zain, 12/1/10. “Surah 112: AL – IKHLAS In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful, etc.” In a few simple and clear lines from you, you have made more sense than all the political propaganda and citizen control that I have heard for decades in the name of your religon. It devalues your (or any other) religion and your faith when it is not sincere. When more Malay Malaysians wake up and feel like you do, you will find more Malay Malaysians will have immense pride and have a true sense of purpose in their life, true nation-building with compassion. You can then go out into the world, like many Chinese Malaysians have done for decades now, and deal with the world with the greatest confidence, and as an equal to any other race. Otherwise, the majority of inward-looking Malay Malaysians’ mentality will set them back decades longer while others move leaps and bounds in the wider “no free lunch” world. If you don’t want more of the same, have faith, make the switch for your own children and MY sake.
Copperhead Joe says
Since the March 8 2008 tsunami that eroded the hegemony of BN, they have been fighting a rear-guard action to stay alive in the political game. Actually the real perpetrators in recent shenanigans cannot be placed squarely on BN which comprises other parties. The true villain of the piece is mainly Umno.
The Umno hardliners desperately want to maintain their dictatorial regime (not government) and continue to enjoy the “booty” of the land and cover up their misdeeds (read corruption). Thus, they use every trick they can think of to stir up sentiments.
They have a few tricks up their sleeve but they never reckoned that the Internet has empowered the general public to have access to information which otherwise would have been buried and spiked by their sycophants […]. And yet they have the gall to come out with statements that the Internet is full of lies and misinformation about them and their misdeeds.
True, not all info should be believed without some kind of qualification but generally intelligent readers with common sense and a rational mind know how to separate the wheat from the chaff.
By their very action, they are heading down the road of fascism but would they admit to it? We’ll be in deep trouble if they are allowed to be re-elected again in the next GE. A happy and prosperous Malaysia will depend on those who have yet to wake up and face the reality that a better future for them is to reject this regime.
Wan Adli says
Dear Malaysian Christian neighbour,
You are correct. Indeed, true believers have been calling the One Real-True God, the Creator, as Allah since before Prophet Jesus or Moses, maybe since Prophet Abraham or even since Prophet Adam, the first man.
I am very happy you want to claim Allah for all of us. But, it seems as if you only would like to name your Trinity God as Allah. Maybe you believe that Allah the Father had incarnated into Allah the Son some time ago in human history. But sir/madam, Allah the Real-True God never did that. You may refute all true believers in human history, but sir/madam, when the Judgement Day comes, they are going to declare the same thing: Allah the Real-True God never incarnated into Allah the Son.
Therefore sir, let’s call our Real-True Creator as Allah. Let’s worship Allah alone. Let us ask Allah all of His grace and goodness in this life and in the afterlife. Let’s ask Allah salvation from the Hellfire. Let’s ask Allah the joy of His paradise. Let us believe in all of His messengers, and all of His authentic revealed scriptures. Let us strive in goodness in carrying out His commandments, and staying away from His prohibitions. Let us avoid drinking, betting, adultery, and usury.
In relation to this, sir/madam I beg you, please, stop assuming that Allah had incarnated into human form. Please, stop associating partners with Allah. Please, stop [professing] the divinity of Prophet Jesus. Please, stop asking salvation from Prophet Jesus. He was only a human being like Prophet Adam, Abraham, and Moses before him, and like Prophet Muhammad after him and like us all now. He was only a man, so please stop putting the burden of forgiveness and salvation on his shoulder. He never can do that.
Even if you still doubt the truth of Prophet Muhammad, it is okay. Keep contemplating on that. But please uphold the truth of Allah as the only Creator, the Only Real-True God. There is no deity except Allah. Also, please uphold the human nature and the prophethood of Jesus, Moses, Abraham and other prophets. As well, please uphold the law of the authentic scripture of Prophet Jesus and Moses.
So sir/madam, let’s come together within a common term and equal word: there is no God save Allah. However sir/madam, if you persist with the Trinity of Allah and divinity of Jesus, please, bear witness in front of Allah when the Judgement Day comes, that we your Muslim neighbours submit ourselves and believe in the Oneness of Allah, the truth of all of His messengers and scriptures, and the certainty of the Judgement Day. Please sir/madam, bear witness to this.
Thank you.
semuaok says
Wan Adli, your misunderstanding is understandable, Christians and Muslim use different Holy Books, but for your information, Christians always believe in one God not three as you have mentioned.
As you have pointed out, let’s let Allah decide in His own time, that is on Judgement Day. But in the mean time do not try to meddle in other’s way of praying.
Muslims believe that they will go to heaven, but its only after one leaves this world that one will know.
[Some Muslims have believed in Jesus through dreams, not through conversion by Christians.] You can read their testimony if you google it.
The bottom line is that each and everyone can only be responsible for his own walk with God, whatever name one calls Him.
Surin says
Would the Muslims be ready to stop publishing the names of the bible prophets such as Nuh, Musa, Ibrahim and Isa? These Jewish prophets predate Islam and should not be used in the Muslim circles at all. Leave the Christians and Jews to their prophets and God, and they will leave you and your religion alone.
Flag of Truth says
Ms Surin.
You are certainly ignorant! And people want to vote you as prime minister! LOL … this is absurd. Do you think Islam only started with Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)? Muhammad was just a messenger of Allah and so were Nuh, Musa, Ibrahim and Isa (to name a few). Please read la.. you certainly have limited knowledge about what’s going on in Malaysia.
semuaok says
Why before Prophet Muhammad, there was no mention of Islam?
Flag of Truth says
@ Semuaok
“Why before Prophet Muhammad, there was no mention of Islam?”
Well even at the time of Jesus Christ, he didn’t say that he preached Christianity :). What he did was just continue what Moses, Abraham and other Prophets did. And since the decision made by Emperor Constantine in the famous First Council of Nicea. The emperor decided to adopt the Trinity of God concept which drew the line and barrier between Islam and the Catholic Church and other Christian sects that adopt the same principle.
That is why the Quran was revealed to Muhammad (PBUH) to bring back mankind to its righteous path.
neptunian says
The righteous path is where women cannot drive – as in Saudi? Wonder if you drive?
JJ_ says
I think you need to research more on what was discussed and agreed in the council at Nicea. BTW, that was not the first ecumenical council. But I digress, that is not the point here.
Point is, there is only one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob. Arab Christians in the 6th century worship this one God, and they used “Allah”. They also believed in the Trinity. So, from a historical perspective, when did “Allah” become exclusive to Muslims? I guess only in our country.
Cheers.
Veronica Shunmugam says
Scrap the Biro Tata Negara and the like. Making and keeping friendships with people from different backgrounds comes with enough minefields as it is.
If I wasn’t Hindu but had a good Hindu friend, I would be less likely to hold up in public the bloodied head of a white cow to express my anger, wouldn’t I?
If I wasn’t Christian or Sikh but had dear friends of these faiths, I would be less likely to attack their houses of worship, right?
And, yeah, I agree with H Lee: “This, Surin, has got to be one of the most logical, clear and succinctly written articles on this whole issue that I’ve read thus far.”
Pipe says
With so much interests and conversations about God, it is an opportune time for Christians to engage with and explain to non-Christians friends:
(1) The reasons for the similarity between Christianity, Islam and Judaism. They are Abrahamic religions and share a common origin — believe in Almighty God, God the Creator, and there is only one God.
(2) All other religions are not Abrahamic religions.
(3) Christians believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Saviour that God has sent to save sinners.
(4) The main distinguishing feature of Christianity is grace, defined as “unmerited favour”, i.e. a benefit (to be Heaven one day to live with God forever and ever) that is given freely to anyone who believes in Jesus … No other religion offers grace.
Allan says
The 1986 government, huh? Was this the same BN government that our current pseudo-PM-in-waiting Anwar was part of?
Augie says
If they can, BN will definitely want Malaysian Muslims to be ignorant of rights of the non-Muslims and deny them the knowledge of historical facts and constitutional rights, by raising sensitive and religious topics to steer them adrift and emotionally entrap them in BN’s grasp. It’s the only way for them to retain and hold on to the power that they are losing grip of. Day by day, they are becoming a government that has outlasted their existence and contribution to the country and its citizens. Gone are the glory days of Tunku [and] what he stood for. We were truly a proud and cherished nation, with members of the other races we could call ‘brothers’.
WALTER TAN says
Jacqueline for prime minister.
keebee says
Agree totally. Malaysians, stand up. We don’t want a government who is taking us backward instead of forward. Shame on those who are responsible for the incitement of violence. Let not those who are responsible for this incitement foget that God is not mocked, a man reaps what he sows.
SABM says
Dear Khairul Fairul (13 Jan 2010 5.51pm),
In answer to your question ‘On what ground do you compare BN (Umno) to the Nazis? I’m confused’, please refer …
“We have become a fascist state under BN rule. How so? Well, a state that actively and aggressively promotes racial and religious superiority is no different from the Nazi state that asserted that the Aryans were superior to the Jews. And the systematic use of violence, fear and draconian laws to diminish and suppress the legitimate rights of minority groups can only be described as fascist.â€
I have taken the liberty to do a quick translation […] (fault lies with me for any inaccurate translation).
“Kita telah menjadi negara fascist di bawah pemerintahan BN. Bagaimana begitu? Ya, sebuah negara yang secara aktif dan agresif mempromosikan ketuanan kaum dan agama tidak berbeza daripada negara Nazi yang menegaskan bahawa kaum Aryan lebih unggul daripada kaum Yahudi. Dan penggunaan kekerasan, ketakutan dan undang-undang kejam untuk mengikis dan menindas hak kumpulan minoriti hanya boleh digambarkan sebagai fascist.â€
j18 says
To Non-partisan: What are you afraid of? Come now, your argument that by calling the BN fascist, they then somehow have a right to ignore requests for a dialogue on the issue, reeks of the fear imposed upon the public that is the hallmark of fascist and totalarian rule. The need to control and dominate others does indeed reside in the animalistic nature of humans. But civilized and enlightened people rise above this urge and embrace justice, equality and compassion for all. Only then are they fit to lead.
beetlenutz says
I am disturbed by the fact that those who press for a ban on the usage of Allah seem to be totally unaware of the material change they are doing to the Kalimah that they profess to protect. The Kalimah stressed the unity and universality of God, and does not ascribe to a group-centric God. Nowhere did the noble Prophet in his dealings with Muslims, people of the Book or even unbelievers did he forbid the usage by them.
Addin says
One thing for sure. Malay Muslims are still the majority in Malaysia. We make up 60% of the entire population and there is no need to remind all of you that we are gaining our strength in numbers and also motivation. There is only one God. I am grateful to live my life as a Muslim and I will definitely want to die a Muslim.
semuaok says
Good for you Addin, so let others praise Allah in their own way without being troubled by busybodies who are trying to claim Allah is theirs. Let Allah Himself decide on hari kiamat . Allah is said to have myriads of name so whats wrong if the Christians want to call God Allah ?.
Murdan Benny says
Bagaimana hendak menunjukkan Islam itu bersifat kasih sayang seperti disebut dalam bismillah… hendak guna kalimah Allah pun kedekut? Bagaimana hendak berdakwah kepada yang bukan Islam?
Tidak kiralah kalimah Allah hendak ditujukan kepada mana-mana tuhan Kristian. Itu kepercayaan mereka. Orang Islam dengan kepercayaan mereka pula. Kenapa gemar sangat hendak menghancurkan sesama manusia? Semuanya adalah ciptaan Allah.
semuaok says
Murdan, I setuju dengan apa kau kata.
Joseph Jorah says
Phenomenon of the word of God in Malaysia.
(Fenomena kalimah Allah di Malaysia)
The Borneo Post; Sunday January 13, 2013.
JOHOR BAHARU: Johor Islamic Religious Council Adviser Datuk Nooh Gadut yesterday said
those who allow the abuse of the word “Allah” can be considered as apostates and should
repent immediately. The Muslim community has argued that the use of the word “Allah”
should be exclusive to them on the grounds that Islam is monotheistic and the word denotes the Muslim god.
“For Muslims, we will translate God as ‘Tuhan’, a generic term, because ‘Allah’ is a specific word.”
He said if the use of the word “Allah” was allowed in the Malay language-Bible,
it would definitely create confusion as the Christian religion teaches that there are three different gods.
….
The Bible does not say that God is three nor does Christianity teach that there are three different gods. Christianity is also monotheistic – believe in only one God’s existence anywhere, anytime.
Such Muslim complaints are misdirected and show that they don’t understand the concept of the Trinity.
The Trinity is a doctrine arrived at systematically (by looking at the whole of scripture),
not by looking at a single verse. The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three truly distinct Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
[The term for] God the creator is the Father. God the redeemer/saviour is the Son. God the helper/guide is The Holy Spirit.
The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are of one and the same substance constituting a divine unity with an inseparable equality; and therefore they are not three gods but one God.
“But in the one true God and Trinity it is naturally true not only that God is one but also that he is a Trinity, for the reason that the true God himself is a Trinity of Persons and one in nature. Through this natural unity the whole Father is in the Son and in the Holy Spirit, and the whole Holy Spirit, too, is in the Father and in the Son. None of these is outside any of the others; because no one of them precedes any other of them in eternity or exceeds any other in greatness, or is superior to any other in power” (The Rule of Faith 4 [c. A.D. 523]).
Proof from the Bible that says it’s one God:
1. Isaiah 43:10: “You are My witnesses, declares the Lord, And My servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no god formed, and there will be none after Me.”
2. Isaiah 44:6: “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, and there is no god besides Me.'”
3. Isaiah 44:8: “Do not tremble and do not be afraid; have I not long since announced it to you and declared it? And you are My witnesses. Is there any god besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none.”
4. Isaiah 45:5: “I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no god.”
5. Deuteronomy 6:4-5 NIV: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.”
6. Matthew 22:32 NIV: “I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
7. John 4:24 NIV: “God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
Dr SK Teoh said: For 15 centuries, Arabic Bibles have used Allah for God and Rab for Lord (predating Islam).
• The first Malay translation of the Bible was made in 1612, and Allah was used for God and Tuhan for Lord in this and all the subsequent translations till today.
• Malay-speaking (and Iban/Dayak) Christians have used the term Allah for more than 100 years in Malaya and the Borneo states in worship, prayers and when reading their holy scriptures. The BM Bible or the Al-Kitab is not translated from the English Bible but from the original languages, i.e. Hebrew and Greek.
neptunian says
This has nothing to do with the practice of Islam. Banning others from using “Allah” is simply a result of “new found” political power of the clergy.
I would put the blame squarely on the shoulders of UMNO. In trying to “out-Islam” PAS, it has unleashed a monster. I just hope Malaysia does not become another “Middle East” country, a country stuck in the 15th century trying to impose its will on a 21st century world.
Joseph Jorah says
My dear Malaysian Muslims and Christians friends.
TRITUNGGAL IMAN KRISTIAN.
“Allah itu Roh dan barang siapa menyembah Dia, harus menyembahNya
dalam roh dan kebenaran.” (Yohanes 4:24)
“Roh Allah itu telah menjadi manusia didalam Yesus Kristus.” (Yoh 1:1-14)
Asas ajaran Tritunggal (Triniti) Oknum iman Kristian.
Kekeriluannya bagi umat Islam mengatakan umat Kristian menyembah tiga Allah. Itulah diantara satu sebab umat Islam melarang umat Kristian menggunakan perkataan Allah. Soalannya bukan tentang berapa lama umat Kristian sudah menggunakan perkataan Allah. Dari sudut penggunaannya, memang betul umat Kristian, Jews dan Arab menggunakan perkataan Allah sebelum agama Islam lahir.
Yang mereka tidak faham adalah tentang ajaran Tritunggal atau Triniti. Sebut saja tentang Allah Tritunggal atau Triniti mereka sudah anggap tiga Allah.
Allah Tritunggal, adakah Allah umat Kristian tiga?
Betulkah umat Kristian menyembah tiga Allah seperti yang disangah umat Islam? Mengapa umat Kristian mengatakan:
“Allah Tritunggal” atau Oknum?
Perkataan “Tritunggal” memang tidak terdapat dalam Al Kitab secara huruf, namun erti Tritunggal Allah itu jelas terdapat dalam Al Kitab.
ALLAH TRITUNGGAL
Contohnya:-
Baca dan perhatikan ke Tritunggal Allah itu.
Kitab Kejadian 1: 1- 11 jelaslah Tritunggal karya Allah dikatakan
1. Allah mencipta
2. Allah berfirman dan
3. Roh Allah melayang-layang di atas permukaan air.
Kesimpulan Tritunggal:
1. Allah itu adalah Pencipta; dalam istilah Kristologi Kristian disebut: BAPA
2. Allah itu berfirman berkata kata; dalam istilah Kristologi Kristian disebut: ANAK
3. Allah itu penolong/pembimbing penyelamat; dalam istilah Kristologi Kristian disebut: ROH KUDUS
Bapa dan Anak dan Roh Kudus dapat disebut dalam sepatah kata sahaja iaitu: ALLAH/GOD (God the creator)
Dalam Bahasa Arab : ALLAH
Dalam Bahasa Inggeris : GOD
Dalam Bahasa Iban : ALLAH TAALA
Dalam Bahasa Bidayuh : TOPA
Dalam Bahasa Kadazan : KINOINGAN
Joseph Jorah says
Perkataan “Allah” (Creator)
Bagi umat Islam di Malaysia, perkataan Allah dan Tuhan adalah sama saja. Bagi umat Islam di Malaysia (orang Melayu), menterjemahkan perkataan/kalimah Allah ialah “Tuhan”. Dalam kata lain perkataan “Allah” tidak ada terjemahannya. Yang ada cuma perkataan “Tuhan”.
Bagi umat Kristian, perkataan “Tuhan” diterjemahkan dalam Bahasa Inggeris ialah “Lord”. “Lord” kalau diterjemahkan dalam Bahasa Arab ialah “Rabb”.
Perkataan Tuhan:
Bagi umat Kristian di Malaysia, makna perkataan Tuhan ada bezanya iaitu, bagi umat Kristian, Tuhan adalah penguasa dan pemelihara atau bidang kewibawaan Allah. (Tuhan tidak menciptakan sesuatu tetapi penguasa/penolong).
Allah atau God adalah Pencipta yang menciptakan langit dan bumi.
Tuhan (Lord) adalah penguasa/pembimbing/juruselamat.
Di sinilah kekeriluannya bagi umat Islam. Sebab mereka menterjemahkan kalimah “Allah” ialah “Tuhan”.
Bagi terjemahan umat Kristian, Allah diterjemahkan dalam Inggeris ialah God (huruf besar). Rabb diterjemahkan dalam Inggeris ialah Lord. Lord diterjemahkan dalam Bahasa Melayu ialah Tuhan.
Dua daripada tiga karya Allah ini kita kenal dalam Yesus Kristus iaitu:-
1. Berfirman
2. Pembimbing atau penyelamat
Jangan anggap Tritunggal itu sama dengan tritheisme.
Apa bezanya tritheisme dengan Tritunggal?
Tritheisme: Adalah ketiga allahan (allah yang huruf kecil, dewa, dewi). Mereka yang menyembah tiga atau banyak allah lain. Fahaman tritheisme ini tidak dianuti oleh Theologia Kristian.
Umat Kristian tidaklah berAllahkan tiga atau umat Kristian tidaklah menyembah tiga allah.
Tritunggal/Triniti: Adalah bahawa Allah yang Esa itu digambarkan atau disifatkan dalam tiga kewibawaanNya atau tugasnya iaitu:-
1, Pencipta (Allah atau Bapa)
2. Berfirman (Anak)
3. Membimbing/penolong (Roh Kudus)
Umat Kristian tidaklah mengatakan Allah itu tiga. Iman Kristian adalah mutlak berAllahkan Maha Esa.
Flag of Truth says
Then I suggest you propose to the Vatican to include or change the word God or Lord in the Bible all over the world to Allah :). The question is why the fuss of having this issue here? There is no issue.
neptunian says
Banning other people from using a word is an issue. If you don’t see that, then….
Flag of Truth says
I only see trouble.. you have to accept the fact that Muslims in Malaysia (regardless of their political background) are not comfortable with the usage of Allah by Christians or any other religion. Don’t tell me about Muslims being ridiculously insensitive or even not logical in their own thinking. It’s the same as putting a cow head in front of Hindhu temple! So Malaysians.. learn to accept the fact. If, of course you treasure peace and harmony. If not then I have the responsibility to tell all of you that you all have a share [if] chaos happens in our beloved country.
hanana bt abdulla says
There is a saying – “Don’t trouble trouble until trouble troubles you”. And the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) has done just that – “jolok the sarang tebuan”.
Even if true, what has “hundred of years, Allah has been used elsewhere” got to do with what the gomen here decides?
Why the obsession with the use of “Allah”?
There are phrases which are translated out of context like Holy Ghost – which is erroneously translated as “roh”. “Roh” is “life” given to man so that when he dies, the “roh” leaves the body of the man. And it has been shown by French scientists that “roh” has a mass and by an application of Einstein’s Theory, can be transformed as “energy”!
Why does an omni-prescient, all-powerful God require the attributes of a man?
[…]
And the translation of “Holy Ghost” as “Roh Kudus”?
Look at the story of how the “Ghost” first appeared in the story board. Paul (or Saul as he was known earlier) said he saw Jesus as a ghost (BM: “pontianak”) after he was crucified (died). So why is “Roh Kudus” the translation for Holy Ghost?
Should not the correct BM translation for Holy Ghost be “pontianak bersih”?
The RCC willy-nilly translates the Bible in any nice-sounding language to attract the Melayus rather than accurately translate what the entity truly is.
Applying Shakespeare’s “a rose by any other name …” in this situation, the Holy Ghost is translated as
“pontianak bersih”. And that is a downgrade of what the RCC (Indonesian branch) has given the “Holy Ghost”?
And if some of you like to maintain that the Catholic God is one, why not delete the Holy Ghost and the Son bit in the Melayu Bible and no one would object the RCC […] to using “Allah”. I, for one, would support you.
After all, the RCC has been challenged by the likes of greats – Galileo and Martin Luther King. Now, will Pakiam and Andrew Lawrence [be great Asians] making history?
[contd]
JJ says
When translations are taken literally, we lose their meaning. That’s why the banner in Mandarin welcoming the Chinese dignatory put up by our government was all wrong.
The term “Holy Ghost” is from the early translations. The later translations used the term “Holy Spirit”. I think we need to understand the language and its nuances when doing translations. To translate ghost into pontianak is really stretching it and borders on being mischievous.
Our languages are deficient. It is not not always possible to do a direct translation without paying heed to its intent. I remember Royal Professor Ungku Aziz saying that he created the word minda as a translation for mind because there was no equivalent word in BM for “mind”, and fikiran does not cut it.
The Arabic translation for Holy Spirit (if I am not mistaken) is Allah Al-Quds. In the BM translation, what I have seen is Roh Allah.
BTW, I would have thought that holy on its own would be translated as suci and not bersih, which is clean.
Cheers.
Flag of Truth says
Allah referred to as ‘Holy Spirit’?.. what [rubbish]!! 🙂
JJ says
You missed my first sentence…
Cheers.
hanana bt abdulla says
[Part 2]
Like MLK, drop the doctrine of the Holy Ghost and the Son of God thingy?
[…]
After all, Christians in America and Europe have emerged adopting doctrine of one God – junking the Holy Ghost and the Son bit, and adopting Jesus Al Masih as a prophet of Allah.
They are the unitarians!
semuaok says
Since you don’t know please don’t comment. Christian believe in one God but it’s people like you who goes round saying Christians believe in 3 gods.
neptunian says
Why the obsession with the use of “Allah”?
Look into the mirror sometime… Please…
Who are the ones so obsessed that they want to ban other people from using the word? Going to the extent of using big government to legislate it. BTW.. only in Malaysia as well.
Chandra says
A ROSE by anyother name is still a ROSE. Or does any one person or group hold exclusive use of that word?
What is our country […] coming to?
Chandra says
Najib goes to his neighbour Sammy, and complains that he should tell his son not to call him Papa. Sammy asks why. Najib replies, my son call me Papa and he gets confused when your son call you Papa too.
Flag of Truth says
lol.. you people like to confuse people.. 🙂
Adam says
Are you people so easily confused? And when confused, resort to threats of violence?
Flag of Truth says
No…but someone has to have the guts to tell you right in your face what will happen if you continue spinning this issue. I don’t like it when our country is threatened by internal unrest like this. It will give opportunity to the leftist to breed their own extremists. And I think it is already in the making. Thanks to all of you.
Adam says
That is exactly what this article is about – “Allah” issue: Who started it?” The asnwer is simply the one who bans the word. Before the ban, there was no issue. Mind you, this article is dated 12 January 2010, three years ago! And the last comment was in January 2010 itself.
And who re-started the comments on 12 November 2012? A person by the name of Addin. I believe it is your other handle, is it not? And that comment started another round of discussion to this day.
Who is to blame? You tell me. Is it the Malay-speaking Christians or the Christian Peranakan from Malacca? To me, the ban is indefensible and untenable. The High Court has ruled as such three years ago and the government has appealed against it. Why? And the appeal is left hanging for so long.
You would be doing a great service to Islam if you were to ask the government to eat humble pie and drop the case. The longer it drags on, the more disrepute your religion would be subjected to and all of us honestly would not like that.
Gopal Raj Kumar says
Who cares who started it? Why does it have to be an issue when it is clearly provocative to the majority who are Muslims? The Catholic Church needs to focus on investigating complaints long swept under their carpet about child abuse, sex abuse of its laity, homosexuality amongst its priests and brothers, and its history of abuse of the poor.
It is a convenient ruse to rush to the one word Allah when for centuries they have used the word God or Deo. If the white Rajahs allowed the use of Allah amongst Christians in “head-hunting” Borneo, it was because the levels of education were so low the only language the natives then used was a version of Malay and the authority at the time was white British Christians and their guns.
Not so anymore. And Catholics and all Christians have to come to terms first with the meaning of democracy. The majority rules. Where the majority provide accommodation for other religions to worship in relative peace and freedom, that accommodation should not be taken as a sign of weakness by Muslims and Malays to encroach into their own religious freedoms and rights.
JJ says
This is not a case of majority rule. This is a case of what is provided for in the constitution. It has nothing to do with weakness of any party, neither has it anything to do with encroachment.
The majority passes laws. But if those laws are in conflict with the constitution, then those laws are void.
Cheers.
Flag of Truth says
And what do you expect the majority to do? Give in to all your demands??! This is a joke 🙂 And I need to remind you that the only religion mentioned in our constitution is Islam. so if you have anything against it, then I suggest you bring that to Parliament 🙂 Whether it is PR or BN which rules the country, Islam will still be the official religion of this country 🙂
JJ says
That is the problem with some of the discussions. There has to be a winner and a loser. Well, I expect the majority, or anyone for that matter, to comply with the constitution. And for the record, the discussion here is not about Islam being the religion of the federation. So there is nothing to bring to Parliament regarding this.
Cheers.
Gopal Raj Kumar says
What part of the constitution provides for absolute unfettered free speech? Where does it suddenly say it is not a case of majority rule or is that an invention of recent import for convenience?
JJ_ says
The constitution is there to protect everyone’s rights. In fact, the majority has to be careful to ensure that the rights of the minority are not trampled on in a democracy. Thus, constitutional amendments require 2/3 majority. In fact, in a more advanced democracy, critical amendments go through referendums because the MPs cannot adequately represent the citizens in some of them.
Perhaps we should all read the original copy of our constitution before it went through all the 40+ amendments (as compared to less than 30 for the US constitution in 240 years). Then maybe we can look back at the dreams and aspirations of our founding fathers and help fulfill them.
Cheers.
daniel tan kah beng says
Moderation belongs to the dictionary. It never will apply in this so called Boleh Land! Shame on those who made its human beings non-peaceful!
Flag of Truth says
@ Adam.
Well, I think it is you who actually has to accept the fact. There is no concrete evidence that can justify the usage of the word ‘Allah’ to replace the word ‘God’ or ‘Lord’ in the Malay-language Bible. The majority of Malays and Muslims will stand united on this issue. So back off 🙂 All of us want to live peacefully here. Unless you are an agent of chaos and instability 🙂
PS: Yes, I have admitted that Addin is my other handle name 🙂
Adam says
Flag of Truth,
Come on, I have accepted the fact that the word is mainly used by Muslims to refer to their God. But, have you accepted the fact that others have also used it to call their God? Please look up Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah.
Why are you and Ellese so obstinate in insisting that the word could only be used by Muslims and none other? Be like Farouq Omaro who is so confident in his faith that he is at peace with himself and everyone.
We are trying to resolve the issue amicably and the last thing we need is your threats of chaos and what not. Please read my lengthy response to Kaytee on the possible options for a resolution of the issue in the article “Allah” issue: The battle over Bahasa. And then give your constructive opinion and views.
Flag of Truth says
You are using Wikipedia as the logic to justify the usage of the word “Allah” in the Malay Bible? … I am for the bigger picture. I am concerned about the stability of this country. The majority of Muslims will not agree or do nothing if the Catholic Church still continues with their intention. There is an option in this matter Mr Adam. Just accept the fact and move on 🙂
Jacqueline Ann Surin says
You mean the majority of Muslims in Malaysia are confused and insecure about their faith? What? In a country that does everything to support a Muslim’s faith? And are you also saying that the majority of Muslims in Malaysia, because they are insecure and confused, are prone to violence and creating chaos in this country just because another faith group is exercising their right to worship with the word “Allah”?
If I were a Muslim in Malaysia, I would say, “Please keep YOUR insecurities to yourself. And please do not assume that like YOU, I will threaten my fellow Malaysians just because I can’t have my way.”
You speak of the “majority of Muslims”. How did you become the spokesperson for the “majority of Muslims”? And what evidence do you have that the “majority of Muslims” will act in the way you have threatened they will?
neptunian says
People like “Flag of truth” are a disgrace to the Malay Muslims. Threatening violence, whenever they don’t get their way regardless of how ridiculous that “want” may be. Reminds me of Ibrahim Ali.
See the big picture…give me a break! The really big picture is that “ALLAH is the one true God and the creator of all things”. So the big picture…anyone and everyone should be using the word ALLAH. Using you lowly human desire and insecurity to claim ownership of Allah? Have you asked Allah?
Gopal Raj Kumar says
And why not. The general view that use of the word “Allah” in context may confuse a large number of Malay Muslims is not to be scorned or be the subject of your feigned outrage.
It is not difficult to confuse people where religion is concerned. Look at the conduct of Christians worldwide. They neither practise their faith in spirit nor adhere to the commandments they are bound to because the interpretations given to these in each cultural environment that is not based in the Middle East where Christianity originated from has its own ideas of what does and what does not constitute the commandments and the spirit of their religion.
You sound so terribly insecure to impute insecurity to the cause of those who do not understand or are confused by the opportunistic use of the word “Allah”.
I bet your own personal morality has little to do with your Christian upbringing. Does that make you insecure? What’s wrong with being insecure? Is that a crime? Your bleating on this site where you have advantage as editor is evidence of your own insecurity which requires comment. How did you become an authority or voice for the majority of Catholics or the Catholic church the subject of this debate on use of the word “Allah”?
Jacqueline Ann Surin says
ROTL. Can always count on you to “add value” to any discussion on this site.
1. Yes, we seem to agree. Those who demand that “Allah” is theirs to use exclusively are confused. The only difference is that you are happy for them to be confused. I would rather Malay Muslims in Malaysia were educated and empowered by a confidence borne out of knowledge and self-respect.
2. When I am insecure, and there are surely times when I am, I’m not afraid to own my insecurity and take responsibility for it. For example, I don’t say, “Gopal Raj Kumar should be banned from ever commenting on this site again because he makes comments about me that make me feel insecure.” I say, “Go ahead, Gopal Raj Kumar. Comment away and if you do make me feel insecure, I’ll be sure to examine my life and take measures to ensure I overcome that insecurity.” I wouldn’t so easily give up personal power to you or anybody else to ensure that I feel secure about my faith, my personal morality, or anything else that is personal. Hahaha, just the thought is tickling me.
3. I never claimed to be the authority or voice for the majority of Catholics or the Catholic church. In fact, I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t want me to be either. And no, I don’t feel insecure that Catholics wouldn’t want me to be their spokesperson. Hehe.
4. And yes, I have so much advantage as editor of The Nut Graph that I ensure that all comments — even those that contradict my “bleating” on this site — get published so long as they adhere to our comments policy. Must be coz I’m insecure 😉
Cheers.
idris says
Nah, it doesn’t have anything to do with insecurity and confusion about their faith. That’s just an excuse. It’s just spite. I mean, non-Muslims who couldn’t give a sh*t about the issue, non-Muslims who initially wouldn’t want to use the word “Allah” …are suddenly making lots of noise about it. Maybe we are all just trying to spite each other.
Ms Surin, you can go on and on trying to mock Muslims with your ‘insecurity’, ‘confusion’ about the religion assertions – it just won’t work. They are likely to react even more spitefully. […]
Yup, blame the BN for this. Blame UMNO. Had they not banned anything, none of this would have happened, and all those non-Muslims will continue mocking fellow non-Muslims who say “Assalamualaikum” (among other things) in all sincerity to fellow-Muslim friends. And all those Muslims will continue being ignorant about the fact that they don’t own these words.
But at least there would be no spite, no silly mocking as we see now. Insecurity…hah. Spite it is. Try to address the real issue [instead of] resorting to insults (i.e. Are Muslims so insecure about their blahblahblah). That is, well, insecure.
JW Tan says
I’m one of those non-Muslims who doesn’t care one way or another how or why the word ‘Allah’ is used. But when the government tries to legislate how words are used, and people profess offence to the point of wanting to make threats against others, then it is a free speech and freedom issue, and so I suddenly care very much.
I don’t have much use for religion. One reason is because it fudges issues, obscures the things that are really important, like respect for your fellow citizen.
Adam says
If you are all for the bigger picture, why just stay a Malaysian Muslim? You should be a Muslim of the world. In the 60s, we liked to read of famous quotations to adopt. There was one which I particularly liked and it was “My country is the world and my religion is to do good” by Thomas Paine who lived in the 18th century. If a person was so broad-minded and inclusive 200 over years ago, we should be likewise, if not more.
If you want to claim sole rights to the use of the word, you have to prove that the word has not been used by others before. Any lawyer worth his salt (I am not referring to any particular lawyer here) would tell you that it is impossible to copyright that word under Intellectual Property laws.
And if you care to ask those simple kampung folks and explain at length the actual historical circumstances to the use of the word by Malay-speaking Christians, they would readily accept the fact and would not be confused by it. Please have more faith in your own adherents.
Flag of Truth says
# Neptunian
Lol.. Well I don’t see myself as ‘intimidating’.. unless you are insecure or unable to accept the fact! 🙂 Who are you to say that certain people are a disgrace? 🙂 I am using this platform to convey my message. You like to label people and I leave it to other people to judge you 🙂
PS: It is you who must see the bigger picture, once we accept or give in to the Catholic Church’s demands, we will see the rise of extremists on both sides. Malay Muslims always maintain a rather tolerant attitude towards others (regardless of what you people claim). Don’t mess with it. Once that happens, the majority of the tolerant group [will] have to take sides. We do not want that to happen. So kill the issue 🙂
semuaok says
http://www2.holybiblefoundation.org/KlinkertMalayOT1879/Genesis.pdf
Take a look at this Malay Bible from 1897.
Gopal Raj Kumar says
I do not agree and never did agree that people who use the word Allah are confused. I used the word “may”. You appear disoriented in your frothing rage about this subject and the people you attack.
There is no need for you to patronise the Malay Muslims and ask that they be ‘educated’. Are you educated? Who says so? Your writings and one-sided opinions do not point to an education. An academic orientation and a bunch of certificates and other forms of scholarship do not make you educated. It is only proof that you have studied something somewhere but does not make you educated.
When did you rise to such levels of moral authority and intellect that you determine a majority of the country needs to be educated on anything? Surin, you need to dive into different dimensions of your own community and not shy from it and bark at shadows.
You appear to have a personal rage against Malays and Islam. A rejection at a personal level perhaps somewhere down the line in your life you can’t forget?
The “insecure” argument is a direct response to your own comments and statements on Malay Muslims referring to it as insecurity. Whether or not you are sometimes insecure is not the point. And there are many instances on the record when you do exactly what you claim not to do in para 2 of your response.
You have more often than not censured and edited my comments (and the comments of others) distorting them in the process. I am sure editorial discretion will be your defence.
You, The Nut Graph, Lim Kit Siang, Teresa Kok, Elizabeth Wong and RPK all engage in censorship. You are birds of a feather feeding from the same fountain of bias and distortion paid for and funded by civil societies, the NED and Chevening house. It’s not really relevant except for your para 2.
As for the rest of it, it sounds like the rantings of a pubescent young girl. Something you are not now. A more mature non-racist, rabidly anti-Islamic stance is appropriate. It’s not personal. Neutrality is best.
Jacqueline Ann Surin says
“A rejection at a personal level perhaps somewhere down the line in your life you can’t forget?”
That’s right. It hasn’t happened yet and yet, I’m not able to forget it. You outdo yourself, Gopal Raj Kumar.
Thanks for a good laugh.
And is there anything else? Instead of arguing the issue at hand, you choose instead to attack people and resort to name-calling. And you wonder why you are sometimes censored or edited according to our comments policy?
Like I’ve said to you before, if you can’t play nice according to the rules in this playground, go play somewhere else. After all, you do have freedom of choice 😉 Ah, but I think you like The Nut Graph way too much to leave us 😛
Gopal Raj Kumar says
Where is the name calling? What is the issue at hand? And if you choose to laugh at such rebuttals of your feeble arguments, that’s your choice although I doubt very much you laugh in anger.
You do hold an anti-Malay bias. It is difficult for you to conceal it. When you attack a polity, in this case the Malay polity or their representatives, you resort to personal attacks at multiple levels. You multiply that insult by the number you offend for no good justifiable cause.
I do like The Nut Graph and the others like it who claim an ascriptive right to lord over the choices of others and to make statements without being checked or challenged.
Keep writing. I’ll keep reading and responding. No free lunches here, there or anywhere like no absolute right to free speech without responsibility. Democracies are twin-edged swords, just make sure you have the handle and can recognise [it] lest you cut yourself then bleed all over these pages.
Kong Kek Kuat says
@ Gopal Raj Kumar
“Anti-Malay bias”? You must be kidding. Mappillai, if anything, I think The Nut Graph sometimes over-do it when it comes to comments about the Malays or comments referring to the Malays. I wish she would have allowed all my anti-Malay biases to be published in the comments section. Of course, I also have my anti-Cina and anti-India biases. But yes, everyone has anti-Malay biases. What´s your problem, maacha?
Jim Kriba says
Fellow brothers and sisters, I guess we Malaysians have lost maturity! We have been put in a nutshell, so much so, when an issue like this surfaces, we get excited and start feeling insecure. Tell me, who owns the world? If you think of it, nobody owns this world! Hence nobody owns anything that the world has! All religions preach only one thing, God is universal! Yes, Hindus believe that God comes in many forms, means and ways, but there is only one God, He comes in many forms, understood? Hinduism doesnt preach there’s MANY Gods as assumed by most non-Hindus! This is due to a misconception among those who do not know anything about the religion! Christians don’t pray to MANY Gods as well! This is a misconception again, there is only ONE Almighty! There is no religion saying there are many Gods…simple…try and understand the following analogy…We are all humans with the same features, blood and flesh right? Our organs can be transferred, blood can be transferred and even our veins can be transferred from one human to another right? If that is the fact, scientifically, we are compatible to each other correct? Which means, there is only one manufacturer correct? Whether you believe in God or not, whether you are a Muslim, Christian, Hindu or Jew, you have been manufactured by the One and Only superpower Almighty right? Does the following makes sense then…we are worshipping the same God in many ways because our teachings are different, simply because we come from different parts of the world geographically, and we had different teachers/gurus/prophets!
If you feel that you belong to a religion which has a different God, and to claim that you belong to the Best, Undisputable, The paling True punya, and that your God is different from others’ Gods, I shall classify you as an immature person, as far as religious teachings is concerned. Islam is a very beautiful modern teaching of religious values, try and go to the depths, and understand the religion well please! I don’t understand why Malaysian Muslims are being so possessive over Allah, the universal Almighty?
[…]
Muslims are often contradicting what they preach especially in Malaysia, you say Allah is the One and Only, the True God….then why are you confining the term Allah to your own use? This is not McDs or Apple for you to claim copyright? it is not a brand name for God’s sake! It is a term that is used in some languages as a reference to God! What is the big deal here? I honestly don’t know….you can awaken someone who is sleeping, but its difficult to awaken someone who is pretending to be sleeping!! When are you going to realize that you are being fooled by some quarters just to gain political publicity, to show you that they are fighting for your rights, because they know that you are not matured, they don’t want you to mature, because if you do….they’ll be destroyed! Think! You are not so stupid to be confused, when others around the world who are from different religions don’t get confused with anything that others do, no matter what, you say Hindus pray to many Gods, I never get confused!! You say Christians pray to 3 Gods, they never get confused! […]
No religion including Islam teaches you to be selfish, if you say ONLY I CAN USE IT, then you are selfish, moreover you are just a new user of the word, the language supercedes the religion historically! Don’t you think this is selfish? I have many Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Sikh etc brothers & sisters, and I pray to God the Almighty, or however you might address Him, to bless us all, the entire world! Thank you!
Flag of Truth says
@ Jacqueline Ann Surin
Well, I have to start a new comment just to answer your previous comment.
This is based on your earlier statement:
“We need to move on even if the appelate court’s judgement was wrong in law and reason, resulted in an injustice, leads us down the road of impunity, and makes Malaysian Muslims look like fools among fellow Muslims in the rest of the world?”
This is surely a ridiculous statement made by you so far. If you have read the judgement on that case then you should state it here so the rest of us can read and analyse…the burden of proof is on you :).
I have always stressed that the Catholic Church has no right in using the word because there is no Catholic Church in other parts of the world that use the word Allah. Catholic missionaries have used this kind of strategy in Indonesia and now they want it to be implemented in Malaysia.
You say that this ruling leads us (who are you referring to?) down the road of impunity. Let me ask you, it is better for everyone to move on. Because continuous fights over this issue will not lead us anywhere :). Let us start to forgive and start a new chapter :).
Malaysian Muslims will not be seen as fools just because some liberal Muslim journalists from some country wrote about this in their newspaper :).
I am grateful to Allah, let us move forward. 🙂
Jacqueline Ann Surin says
All of the three judges’ arguments and judgements are included in links here: https://www.thenutgraph.com/uncommon-sense-with-wong-chin-huat-on-the-allah-judgement/. As are the implications of the Court of Appeal’s judgement.
Please demonstrate with proof how my comment is “ridiculous”. It’s not enough to declare that it is so just because that is your opinion.
As to your comment: “I have always stressed that the Catholic Church has no right in using the word because there is no Catholic Church in other parts of the world that use the word Allah. Catholic missionaries have used this kind of strategy in Indonesia and now they want it to be implemented in Malaysia.”
You don’t need to look very far. The Catholic Church in Indonesia uses “Allah”. And Indonesia is the most populous Muslim nation in the world.
Please provide us with evidence that Catholic missionaries have used this strategy and want it implemented in Malaysia.
Declarations alone, without any proof, are not good enough if you want others to “move on”.
Adam says
Let us move on to the new article by Wong Chin Huat on this hot topic. This article is already almost 4-years-old. This is one issue which I would look forward to commenting in my retirement. What better subject to dwell on than God and Allah before I move on to the next world. See you there….I mean the new article.
Flag of Truth says
@ Jacqueline Ann Surin
Come on.. You want me to hear from someone other than the court of law? If everyone can interpret the law then what is the use of the court? I was surprised that even someone who is as intelligent as you do not know about who is responsible for interpreting the law and also the constitution.
Yes, Catholics managed to get it in Indonesia BUT it doesn’t mean that they have the right to do it here. If you want to reside in Indonesia, then it is your choice Jacqueline 🙂
My advice is, accept it and move on 🙂
Jacqueline Ann Surin says
And what if a court of law interprets the constitution wrongly, as did this particular Court of Appeal? Why should citizens “move on” when a bad judgement has been made that affects citizens unjustly and wrongly?
Is that what you believe your faith teaches you? To ensure that injustice is perpetuated against others in the name of Islam?
The issue isn’t about me moving to Indonesia, or about me moving out of my country. The issue is your broad and unsubstantiated claims to support your argument that “Allah” cannot be used by non-Muslims. For example, your big bluff: “I have always stressed that the Catholic Church has no right in using the word because there is no Catholic Church in other parts of the world that use the word Allah. Catholic missionaries have used this kind of strategy in Indonesia and now they want it to be implemented in Malaysia.”
When it’s pointed out that you’re bluffing, you deflect by suggesting I should move to Indonesia. Hahaha. Pls just admit you were bluffing.
And, please demonstrate with proof how my comments are “ridiculous”, as you have so claimed. Like I said, it’s not enough to declare that it is so just because that is your opinion. And when you can’t prove the strength of your arguments, you deflect by telling me:
1. not to be emotional
2. move out of the country
3. move on
You’ve got to do better than this, honestly, if you want to be convincing.
Flag of Truth says
@ Jacqueline Ann Surin
🙂 Chill out Jacqueline.. What makes you feel that the court interpreted the constitution wrongly? And if the court has interpreted it wrongly, then we should believe in any Tom, Dick or Harry who claims that he has the knowledge to do so? I have laid it plainly to you about how the judiciary works in this country. Seems that you have no faith in lots of things.
I wonder maybe this is how you react when someone is provokes you :). Welcome to the club, Miss Surin. Not everyone will agree with what you wrote in your articles. This time the way you wrote back shows how shallow your mentality is 🙂
Yes, I agrees that when someone is eager to use the word “Allah” to refer to God, I must say it will further confuse Catholic Christians who believe in The Trinity Of God. Which God, Jac? The Father? The Son? Or the Holy Ghost? I am sorry if I say this because I tried not to touch any subject on other people’s religion but since you brought this up then let us discuss this. There was someone here who previously claimed that actually, Catholics worship just one God. I can say whoever said this is rather delusional because there are lots of Christians who are confused about whether to believe that there are “three persons in One” or completely three different persons. Now the Vatican wants to further confuse Malaysians by adding the word “Allah”?
Yeah, I am not bluffing. You seem to like Indonesia very much. Maybe you can apply for citizenship there.
Jacqueline Ann Surin says
Yet again, when the flaws in your arguments are pointed out, you respond by making personal attacks. I need to chill out. I am reactionary. My thinking is shallow. Catholics are delusional. I like Indonesia and should migrate there.
Please address the flaws in your argument including your big bluff about how nowhere else in the world do Catholics use “Allah” in their worship. If Indonesian Catholics clearly use “Allah” in their worship, how can you continue to defend your claim that Catholics in other parts of the world don’t use “Allah”? Telling me I like Indonesia and should migrate there is deflecting, something you clearly need to resort to when you’re caught bluffing.
As to the problems in the Court of Appeal judgement, you just need to read the numerous analyses out there about how flawed the judgement is including our lead column this week. Or you can continue to be in denial because it works in your favour.
Flag of Truth says
@ Jacqueline Ann Surin
I am saying that more often than not, “we” want people to believe that what “we” write is the best for others. And more often than not when someone has a different view, they just can’t accept it. Yes, I am referring to you 🙂
Here we go again, going over and over. I have just put it simply because you cannot compare what happened in Indonesia and just do it here. Why it is so hard to understand? If you have kids and family.. do you want to follow other people’s way or your own way? Malaysian Muslim have clearly asked the Catholic Church.. To us Allah is one God.. and which God do the Catholics refer to?.. Look, many of you claimed that Allah has been used in lots of places. Then why don’t you say where it is. I would like to discuss further.. rather than saying it generally. Like I said..the burden of proof is not on me.
And if some quarter feels that the judgement was biased, then they have two options…either make an appeal according to the law OR move on.
neptunian says
Wonder why you did not advise your brethren to “move on” with the original judgement, instead of appealing?
Flag of Truth says
@ Neptunian
We follow our common senses rather than emotion 🙂
Adam says
When religion takes hold, commonsense and rationale take a back seat and sometimes fly out through the window, like the Appeals Court’s verdict. Just read the furor of public opinion locally and internationally and you will find that there are too many holes in the judgment. The flip-flop statements made by the government and Muslim NGOs on the usage of the word between West and East Malaysia also confirm that the ban can neither be implemented nor defended. So, forget about the ban and let the status quo remain. It is sad to see how much disrepute the issue has caused the religion and now our Judiciary.
An unjustified action will always go round and round in circles and will usually come around to bite those perpetuating it. This is a universal truth.
Bamboo says
This ‘ Allah’ thing is not about religion. It’s political. It’s Umno’s attempt to regain support from Malays. Unfortunately the discussion is been dominated by Umno and Umno allied NGOs like Perkasa. Also the compliant judges gave out the verdict which weren’t in tandem with historical facts, Quranic verses. Thus we are a laughing stock of the world. The verdict has invited rebuttals from journalists of The National, Jakarta Post and Guardian who truly understand the facts and have torn the verdict into shreds!!
GlueBall says
When a government in a free, civilised, democratic society gets into the business of regulating religions, its political system is broken.
Flag of Truth says
@ Bamboo
We Muslims do not see this issue as a political issue. You can see that the majority in both UMNO and PAS have the same opinion. It is related to our ‘akidah’, our belief. What happened in Indonesia will not happen here in Malaysia.
Jacqueline Ann Surin says
You mean, Muslims in Indonesia have a different “akidah” or belief about Islam compared to Muslims in Malaysia?
And how about the “akidah” of Muslims in Malaysia who disagree with the ban on the use of “Allah” by non-Muslims?
And if different Muslims have different beliefs about their religion, why should we follow one over the other? And why should we allow the “akidah” that results in an injustice to inform public life instead of the one that prevents an injustice against others?
Jacqueline Ann Surin says
Since you haven’t answered my question, here it is again:
Why should we allow the “akidah” that results in an injustice to inform public life instead of the one that prevents an injustice against others?
Flag of Truth says
@ Jacqueline Ann Surin
“You mean, Muslims in Indonesia have a different ‘akidah’ or belief about Islam compared to Muslims in Malaysia?”
Your statement shows how shallow your knowledge about Islam is. Now let me tell you something about this (I consider this my responsibility). Both Malaysia and Indonesia adopted Mazhab Syafie (sect). But there are several differences in terms of practices and implementation AS LONG as it doesn’t affect our CORE BELIEF. To understand this you have to read about ‘Rukun Iman’ and ‘Rukun Islam’ because that is the Muslim’s core belief (doesn’t matter what mazhab they are practising).
So that is why you can find that there are a few differences and also similarities between the practices of Muslims all over the world AS LONG as it doesn’t affect the CORE BELIEF.
Back to the main issue. We Muslims really take it seriously when it comes to religion, it doesn’t matter whether PAS, UMNO or PKR. In Malaysia we Muslims believe that if someone (individuals or groups) wanted to do something out of the ordinary and they have been seriously defending this cause even if it is clearly wrong – then surely there is something fishy going on 🙂
joseph says
Muslims need to understand other faiths from the viewpoint of those who profess those faiths.
Muslims scholars should reach out to their Muslims brothers and sisters and tell them that the Quran does not prohibit people of other faiths from referring to God as Allah.
Explain to Malaysian Muslims that, historically, many non-Muslims have used the term ‘Allah’ to refer to the Divine, and that, in fact, the term Allah actually precedes the Quranic revelation.
neptunian says
Barking up a wrong tree – In Malaysia, the people in control, are mainly Sunni Muslims. They can’t even explain to the Shia, in a logical manner, why the Shias should be banned.
Murdan Benny says
Just to get the heat up again!!
[What if] the Melayu islams proceed to claim the Quran is for Muslims only? There are so many verses started with “ya aiyunhannas …”, Allah is saying to all people, to me that’s including the non-believers (not yet). The Quran is universal, for everybody. The door to Islam is never closed. For the 4.5 billion wanabe muslims, Allah is their ar-Rahman too … and they have no other al-Malik, only Allah.
How do you propagate Islam, if you say the word Allah is prohibited?
What is paramount for the muslims, when they become muslims, they must not use the word “tuhan”, “rabb” or God as the words conjure “many”. Allah is One, god is many. So please do not shirk, that’s idolatory. And remember the Quran is for all humankind, go and preach and make conversions. […] Why […] destroy what Allah has created?
neptunian says
Good one… based on the proclaimed universality of Islam, the ban should be on Muslim using other words not on Non-Muslims using Allah.
Anyway, I will still say “Allah Mak!” “God Mak” or “Tuhan Mak” just don’t cut it.
Flag of Truth says
@ Murdan Benny & neptunian
I think I can compliment you guys for all the efforts to justifies this issue. Indeed Allah is the one and only God. and Quran is the holy book to to remind everyone of us to worship one God.. that is Allah.
The issue here is the Catholic Church wants to use the word ‘Allah’ in the Malay version bible to refer to their God. If you want to believe in Allah then you should know that only Allah, God whom Adam, Noah, Joseph, Moses, Jesus and Mohammad worship.
I have repetitiously asked the forum here to justify which Allah does the Catholic Church want to refer? The Father, The Son or the Holy Ghost?. If you want to worship Allah then you have to embrace the true revelation. Besides Allah has clearly challenged everyone of us to prove that Al Quran is indeed have contradictory facts.
“And it was not [possible] for this Qur’an to be produced by other than Allah , but [it is] a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of the [former] Scripture, about which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.(Sura 10:37).
We Muslims never claim that Allah is exclusively ours. We worship the same God that other prophets have worshipped way before the time of Muhammad. But we want answers from the Catholic Church why they wanted to use ‘Allah’ to refer to the trinity concept. It’s an irony, We Muslims whether Syiah or Sunni never have this kind of confusion when we worship God. 🙂
neptunian says
Why oh why does anyone need to answer your questions as to their right to use a “word” or a “name”
It is only in Malaysia that you can exert that right, because the judiciary system is all messed up and the small group of very vocal people who claims to represent the major race group are hell bent on imposing their “might”. This is called bullying, shameless bullying. Alas, the concept of shame is very foreign to this group of people and before you know it, I may be charged for “insulting” Islam for saying this!
Flag of Truth says
@ neptunian
How can you claim that this is an act of bullying? We just want to know the justification why Christian Catholics want to use the word Allah to refer to their Gods. And now you told me that my question on this does not need any answer. What a selfish response. Of course Muslims like me need answers.. if the Catholic church can not present us with concrete answers then the court of appeal is correct in its judgement.
Do try again.. maybe even harder next time? 🙂
Flag of Truth says
@ neptunian
Do you know why there is no one [who] dares to answer my question on the justification of the Catholic Church on this issue?. Because everyone who has the knowledge regarding the trinity concept knows that this will only bring confusion to the Christian masses. since the time of Nicean Creed up till now the Christians have embraced the trinity concept which resembles polytheism. If any of the Catholic masses claim that Christians believed in monotheism, it is only an attempt to further confuse the people. Again.. please tell me, who actually do you want to refer as ‘Allah’? the Father?… The Son? or the Holy Ghost/Spirit?.
Catholics form roughly 8-9% of the total population of Malaysia. and from that figure majority of the Catholics are from East Malaysia (I have been told that the figure is around 65%). And most of them does not converse in ‘bahasa melayu’ in their day to day life (unless there [is] requirement to do that).
It is an irony.. all this time certain groups don’t even care about ‘Bahasa Melayu’. But not in this issue because they have certain agenda.
It is quite hard isn’t [it]? 🙂
neptunian says
Hard only in small minded individuals who insist everyone else follow their dictum and are easily confused. It is better to spend more time and energy learning to be a better person.
Adam says
FoT,
Perhaps, you should take the time to go through the various articles at this website http://www.krisispraxis.com/archives/2013/01/collated-resources-christians-from-pre-islam-arab-christians-to-bumiputera-christians-have-the-right-to-use-allah/ The Indonesian Bible society has also come up with their justification at http://www.alkitab.or.id/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=100&Itemid=2
JJ_ says
Perhaps we should focus on the issue in relation to the constitution instead of from a religious viewpoint. There is really no need to defend the practice of one’s faith, the doctrine that one believes. The federal constitution protects one’s right to practice one’s faith in peace and harmony, meaning without coercion from anyone, save for proselytisation to Muslims.
And perhaps a similar situation would be, if one is of mixed parentage, as in from different nationalities, and one parent is a Malaysian. Would one have to justify why one chooses Malaysian citizenship if the constitution has granted right to one to so choose? The rights of citizens, as provided for in the constitution, need to be upheld.
Cheers.
Flag of Truth says
@ Adam
I have read about the evolution of Christianity from the life of Prophet Jesus to the time of Nicean creed until now, when Christianity itself is divided between various sects (Catholic, Protestant, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, LSD, Coptic, Maronite, etc).
So I know what I am talking about. Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to continue the teaching of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses,Jesus and many more prophets that were sent by Allah to guide mankind so that they will always follow the righteous path. The word ‘Allah’ refers to one and only God (the same God that these prophets worshiped). Mohammad did not start a new religion. If you understand about the history of Bible you will understand why Quran was revealed to Muhammad 1400 years ago. The content of the bible is so confusing and its worth mentioning it here that ‘Holy Bible’ is the combination between the Old Testament and New Testament.
Now in Malaysia bible were called ‘Injil’, and this is quite funny because Injil is not bible at all. The authenticity of the bible itself is indeed questionable.
Now the Catholic Church wants to further misguide the masses with this issue.
PS: I suggest that you yourself take time to study about the bible. And after that please study the Quran because I myself took time to study Christianity and its evolution. If you understand the Bible and the Quran then you will understand more about Allah. 🙂
neptunian says
“when Christianity itself is divided between various sects (Catholic, Protestant, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, LSD, Coptic, Maronite, etc).”
AND Islam is not? – That is a really blinkered point of view.
Adam says
FoT,
While I appreciate your good intentions in pointing out the so-called “inconsistencies” of Christianity, it is best for the individual to do a comparative study of all the major religions of the world before accepting one which gives him/her peace of mind and spiritual peace.
The major part of my life has been spent in my career and in bringing up a family. Now, in my twilight years, there is not much time left to seek the “truth”. But thanks to the internet, searching for knowledge is made so much easier. I find that the teachings and message of Christ give the most hope. It may appear confusing at first but if one dwells deeper into the message, it becomes believable and when one practises it, one becomes spirit-filled.
The confusion by Muslims on the concept of the Trinity could be mainly due to the wrongly-perceived view that the Trinity consist of God the Father, Jesus the Son and Mary the Mother as per Sura.5.73-75, 116.
Anyway, coming back to the issue, do you agree that the Christians have been using the word since a long time ago, even before the advent of Islam regardless of whether, to you, the word has been correctly or incorrectly used? If you do, then there is no denying them the use of the word.
Even before Biblical times, it has been archeologically proven that the name Allah has been used to refer to the Moon God. So, logically, both Christianity and Islam do not have monopoly of the word/name. Therefore, it is left to the respective religions to define what the word stands for. Muslims can define Allah as the name of their monotheistic God while Christians can refer to Allah as The God. There should not be any confusion at all.
Flag of Truth says
@ Adam
I am not saying that the Muslims are confused. I am saying that even the Christians are confused when they learn that actually the Bible was written by common people and […] that it was written a hundred years after the death of Jesus. So how come you can claim that Christians are following the true teachings of Prophet Jesus?
The Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad because its purpose is only to bring back mankind to worship one God. Not the trinity God. It is strange to see the Vatican chose to support this strange idea when they themselves don’t want to associate their God with Allah.
Put it simply this way. If you guys want to worship Allah, then worship the One and Only God that our forefathers worshipped since Adam until Muhammad. Why confuse ourselves with something that we don’t understand.
PS: Bible is not Injil 🙂
Adam says
FoT,
Of course, Muslims are not confused over who their Allah is, just as Christians know exactly who their God/Allah is. Perhaps, Muslims are confused over why Christians are not confused by the concept of the Trinity. Of course, if the Trinity as indicated in the Quran includes Mary, the Christians would also get confused. Have I confused you as I am getting a little confused myself.
Anyway, if the Quran has got the wrong concept of the Trinity, it could also be wrong as well about the Christian Injil being changed. Christians believe Jesus was crucified, died and rose from the dead. Muslims believe Isa was not crucified but instead saved by Allah by putting someone else in his place. Jesus was crucified for a reason. What was the reason for another to die in Isa’s place?
Yes, there are many things that we do not understand but instead of being confused, we have to search for possible answers. With understanding comes acceptance.
Flag of truth says
# Adam
Just search for the true teachings of Jesus. Then you know that it is Allah the one and only God that we must worship.
How come you said that it is wrong to assume that the Injil has been altered? It was written 100 years after the death of Christ and there is no systematic collection from the Injil’s original version. And what makes it even more complicated is it was combined together with the Old Testament for which its authenticity can be questioned.
If you are indeed searching for the truth, I suggest that you look for the answer in the Quran.
Adam says
FoT,
Of course, God/Allah is only One but how do we, puny humans, communicate and get close to the Almighty? He does not want us just to worship Him but also to hear His words and do His bidding. Through the ages, He has sent His messages and commands through the Prophets directly or through His angels. And ultimately, He did sent His Word and Spirit to mankind through Jesus Christ.
Now, the Gospels/Injil were said to be written between 50 AD to 150 AD by the Apostles themselves and were compiled and canonized within the 4th century before the advent of Islam in the 7th century. All the 4 Gospels about Jesus bear similar narratives on the life, death and resurrection of Christ. So, the Bibles available to the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) then were the same as what we have now.
There are many questions about the similarities and differences of Bible narratives found in the Quran. Muslim and Christian scholars have discussed and debated at length the discrepancies in the various forums and websites. One such discussion can be read at http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Bible/sixpoints.html It is indeed interesting to read and ponder on those issues and come up with our own conclusions. No one should impose upon another what one believes and how one practices his/her belief. As per Sura 109.6, “For you is your religion, and for me is my religion”. If we happen to believe in the same religion, then praise be to God/Allah.
Flag of Truth says
@ neptunian
[…]
I am glad that you have asked because it gives me the chance to give further explanation. The Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) not only for the Arabs but to bring mankind back to the righteous path that [was] diverted because some people that claimed to be disciples of Jesus made changes to the original teachings of Jesus. The Injil now is quite different from the original version. It was so corrupted that they had to write it back again and called it the “new testament”. The persons responsible for writing the new testament was Mark, Matthew, Luke, Jude, John, James, Peter, Paul and worse still, there are some unknown authors.
The Quran on the other hand was revealed to Muhammad and it was never altered like what happened to the Injil. Allah himself guarantees the authenticity of the Quran. You guys can actually try to find mistakes in the Quran and you will find nothing.
To answer neptunian’s question on the various sects in Islam. Yes, it is a fact that the majority of Muslims are divided into two major sects: Sunni and Syiah. But the difference between these two is not about the issue of God (it has always been the One and Only) or how many times we have to perform our prayers or whether we have to fast in Ramadhan or perform the Hajj. Sunnis and Syiahs always agree on the big issue but the difference between these two is a political issue, because the Syiah tends to prioritise the Prophet Muhammad’s family rather than the Companions.
Now, what I don’t understand is why the Catholic church, which all this time [has been] unable to explain about the authenticity of the Bible, now want to further confuse us by calling the Bible Injil and worse still, they want people to adopt the trinity concept.
neptunian says
Your answer then begs another question: Why are the Shias being persecuted in Malaysia? Do the Sunnis always treat their Muslim brothers so badly? ALLAH forbid, thinking about how Sunnis in Malaysia must want to treat infidels!
Note: Above comment does not include all the “adat”-loving Muslims I know while growing up. I lived in Malay kampung till 19!
Flag of truth says
@ neptunian
Why are Syiahs being prosecuted? Well, to answer this you must consider a few factors. It’s happening around the world. We can see the clash of ideology even in the Christian world (clash between Catholics and Protestants). So it is quite normal. You should understand in this part of the region (Southeast Asia) Syiah is considered a strange influence. Both Malaysia and Indonesia’s Muslims have adopted ählul Sunnah wal jamaah as guidance.
But let us not divert from the main issue. Under what justification does the Catholic Church want to champion this issue when they themselves (the Vatican) doesn’t want to call Allah their God. 🙂
Flag of Truth says
# Adam
Throughout the history of mankind, Allah sent us lots of prophets to give mankind guidance so that they worship Allah, one and only God. Allah had to repeatedly send one prophet after another because mankind was easily diverted from worshiping Allah. Satan always wants mankind to choose the wrong path, idolising gods that they make up themselves.
The Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad, the last Prophet that Allah sent to mankind. People who are seeking the truth will find it in the Quran, because it is indeed from Allah. Logically thinking, why should Allah reveal the Quran if the Injil or Gospel had indeed been authenticated by the time of Muhammad? Allah knows that the content in the Gospel and Torah had been altered beyond repair and a new revelation in the form of the Quran should be sent to guide mankind.
This is where the line is drawn between Muslims and Christians. If you doubt that the Quran is indeed a holy book from Allah, then you should try to prove the inconsistency in the Quran. The Bible is not in its original version and it has been proven.
If we want to find the truth, find it in the Quran.
Adam says
FoT,
Thank you for recommending your Holy Book. Although I have seen and known many Muslims who are good people, I could not see how the religion could give me spiritual peace and comfort in my remaining years.
There are too many different interpretations in the Quran between the different Islamic authorities and the various schools of jurisprudence(Mazhab). Muslims are fighting Muslims unabated and there is no solution in sight. Even on this Allah issue itself, you could see that within Malaysia, there are Muslims who are for and against the ban. Of course internationally, most of the Islamic nations are against the ban of the word and yet, Malaysia is doggedly pushing for it.
Further, one way to know a religion is to check what the ex-followers have to say and their reasons for leaving the faith. […]
It is also quite scary and unsettling to learn of the persecutions and death threats for apostates. In this modern age of knowledge and freedom, it is unthinkable that there is no complete freedom of conscience and religion being granted in Islam. As one Sudanese Islamic scholar has aptly declared that “if I do not have the freedom to disbelieve, I cannot believe”. That also sums up my position.
Adam says
FoT,
I have given a lengthy response which has not been published for whatever reasons. Perhaps, my references may be too sensitive.
Anyway, in a nutshell, as you have said, “Satan always wants mankind to choose the wrong path, idolising gods that they make up themselves”. Please note that your statement could apply generally.
As for inconsistencies in the Quran, there are many websites especially run by ex-Muslims which have listed the inconsistencies for which Muslim scholars could not convincingly explain. There are also debates between Muslims and Christians on the “answering-christianity” and “answering-islam” websites for all to read and reflect and draw their own conclusions.
This Allah issue has gone on long enough but I guess it would continue to be an issue as long as the government allows it.
Flag of Truth says
@ Adam
If you take the words of people who hate Islam then you will not find the truth :).
Quran is from Allah. He Himself guarantees it. He has revealed the Quran to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who does not know how to read at all. This is to show mankind that Muhammad can not make the Quran himself. Allah also challenged mankind to make one book that resembles the same knowledge and the quality but no one can make such book because it is indeed the words of Allah.
Again, bible is not Gospel.. and Injil is not bible. People who understand this will know the truth. Indeed this issue has gone long enough because of certain parties’ ill intentions to manipulate this issue.
Adam says
FoT,
Most, if not all people are not against faith but against the hate being perpetuated by extremist elements and their teachings.
As for the Quran being fully revealed by Allah to your Prophet, I have to resist commenting further or else I would venture into troubled waters. Suffice to say that you do now understand better the Trinity doctrine of the Christians although you may not believe it now.
Again, you have wrongly put the blame on the ill intentions of certain parties for this Allah issue. After reading this article and the more than 10 related articles put up by the NutGraph and you still do not realize who has started the issue, then there is nothing more I could do but to leave you to your own opinion.
Let us see how the issue will play out in the coming months with the Federal Court appeal coming up as well as the SIB and Jill Ireland cases. I guess there will be more “ill-intentioned” Christians coming forward to claim the use of the word.
neptunian says
Seems to me, the only people spreading hate are Muslims like yourself.
Flag of Truth says
@ Neptunian
Sometimes there are people who actually fail to realise their own faults 🙂
kamaruzzaman says
Why the hatred towards Umno? It’s the Umno-led government that made you, who you are now. Can you deny that? Our founding fathers toiled with blood, sweat and tears to make our country an example of peace and harmony. Look around you and see the predicament of citizens of other nations. Of course we’ve our ups and down but on the whole we’re better in all respects.
Before blaming others I strongly suggest that you heed the advice of Jesus. He said,
“Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judge; and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is thy brother’s eye, but considered not the beam in thine own eye?
Or how will thou say to thy brother. let me pull out the mote of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother,s eye (KJV Mat. 7:1-5).
And also remember the sermon on the mountain. What beautiful advice.
Salam.