SULASTRI Ariffin has been around the world. Manager of the mak nyah (trans women) programme at PT Foundation, she has participated and spoken at conferences on HIV and sexuality in Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand, Australia, Sri Lanka, India, Australia, Canada, Mexico, and Switzerland.
She has even met Richard Gere — twice.
But in her 15 years of working on HIV and sexuality, Sulastri is happiest when she is working in Malaysia. She travels all over the country — to Perak, Pahang, Kelantan, Kedah, Malacca, Sabah and Sarawak — to facilitate workshops for mak nyahs and sex workers on HIV awareness and community empowerment.
She tells The Nut Graph that Malaysians are actually more accepting of diversity than we may assume.
TNG: Where were you born?
I was born in Kuching, Sarawak, in May 1961. I am the second of seven children. I have three sisters and three brothers. Sekarang saya pun boleh dikira sisterlah (chuckles).
Where did you grow up?
Saya membesar di Kuching, schooling there and everything. My primary school was Sekolah Rendah Encik Buyong, and from Form One to Form Three I went to Sekolah Menengah Tun Abang Haji Openg. I did my Form Four to Form Six at Kolej Datuk Patinggi Abang Haji Abdillah.
What is your asal-usul? Where were your parents or grandparents from?
Actually my mother’s side dari Brunei. Sebab dulu Sarawak was ruled by Brunei, kan? After Sir James Brooke datang, Sultan Brunei gave Sarawak to him. Itu yang Brunei sekarang kecil saja. So my mother’s side are all orang Melayu Brunei. My grandfather was a Pangeran, and so my mother was a Dayang. Ini keturunan-keturunan istanalah.
Kononnya kita ini blue bloodlah, tapi saya tengok darah saya merah (laughs). Tapi itulah, masa emak saya meninggal masa saya umur 10 tahun, saya ingat lagi kain yang melilit batu nisan dia warna kuning, bukan putih.
When did you come to Kuala Lumpur?
I came to KL in 1982. Still young, biasalah. My intention was to find a job. Tapi I had some peers here already doing sex work. They said you don’t need to look that feminine to earn good money. Apa lagi kalau muka awak memang feminine. Jadi, saya terikut dan menjadi sambutan hangat. People would really queue for services from mak nyahs in the 1980s.
But after a while, we faced police raids and violence from gangsters. But it wasn’t as bad as it is now. Some mak nyahs back then in Chow Kit were very united, and would halau all the troublemakers.
Mimi Zarina was one mak nyah leader who decided to take the welfare approach to organise mak nyahs. In the 1980s she led the setting-up of the Persatuan Mak Nyah Wilayah Persekutuan. This was a crucial time. In 1983, there was the fatwa outlawing sex reassignment surgery, and then in 1986 we had the first reported case of HIV in Malaysia.
The welfare department was very supportive of our persatuan, even though we were all young and inexperienced. And so we were active. We did gotong-royong, cleaned up the city, volunteered in mental hospitals and so on. We even went to Kajang to have perlawanan netball against a women’s team.
At that time Datuk Shahrir Abdul Samad was Federal Territory Minister. He was okay with us. We had baju kurung uniforms with badges and all, macam Wanita Umno.
But the religious bodies started to make an issue out of it. They protested, “Why buat persatuan macam ini? It will recruit more people to become mak nyah.”
When did you realise you were a mak nyah?
You just have that feeling, you know. When I was 10 or 11, I found myself attracted to the older boys in my kampung, but I didn’t understand it.
Did the boys or anyone else harass you?
I wasn’t too obviously mak nyah at that time. Just lembut. I’m shy and pendiam by nature. Sekolah pun depan rumah saya, jadi budak-budak tak berani kacau. The kids in the kampung were also not really exposed to mak nyahs at that time. So they had nothing to compare me to.
But when I was in Primary Four, I noticed there was a very obvious boy in Primary One, who was from another village. I knew he was quite a sissy, and he was very popular. Sampai sekarang, dekat kampung dia semua orang kenal dia. And people can accept him, maybe because the villagers knew him from the time he was small until now.
What was your family like?
They are typical Malay [Malaysians] in terms of culture, religion and so on. My childhood was quite normal. I mixed with everyone — male, female, the neighbours’ kids — I climbed trees, played football.
But my family once caught me wearing women’s clothes when I was five years old. At that time I was looking after my six-month-old sister in the buaian. My mother was cooking in the kitchen. So I put on my mother’s baju kurung and sang lullabies to my sister. Suddenly my neighbour showed up. So I slipped and hid inside the baju kurung like it was a tent (laughs).
Does your family accept you now?
They say they always knew. But you must understand I stayed away from them after I came to KL. I only reunited with them in 2002.
How did that happen?
It was unplanned. I had gone to Kuching to help with a training organised by the Sarawak AIDS Concern Society. I went with my boyfriend at the time. We stayed in a hotel not far from the market, and then suddenly one day we bumped into my uncle and auntie near the market. They recognised me, you know. And I wasn’t prepared for it. I just bagi salam normally. But I didn’t know that after that meeting, the word had spread to everyone.
By the time I got back to the hotel, I had so many messages for me at the counter from my family. They said they missed me and wanted to meet me.
How did you feel about that?
I spent two whole hours thinking about what to do. As a mak nyah, you tend to accept what people say about you — that you are wrong, sinful. And if this is what society is saying about you, then how are you going to face your family? You feel lonely and ashamed of yourself. You feel very afraid.
So I was scared of my family this time in Kuching. What if they came to the hotel and they hurt me? What if they interrogated me, “Macam mana kau jadi macam ini? Tak malu?” That’s what I always feared.
But I also had some amount of confidence at that time because of my work with PT. So I called my younger sister. And then everyone came and I was brought to her home. But nobody asked me a single question about why I turned out this way. Nobody attacked me. Even my father and stepmother came to me and said they missed me very much. And at this time, my boyfriend was with me, you know. And there was no judgment, tak ada apa-apa pun.
It’s true, they were angry, but it was because I had stayed away from them. “Why did you not come back to see us?”
I felt guilty about that, and I admitted to them that it was my fault. We had a big family dinner after that, and it was a new beginning for me. When I went back to the hotel, it hit me: my family tak buang saya. Now we stay in touch.
What else did your family say?
I asked one of my aunties here in KL, “Can you accept me this way?” She got really angry with me. She said, “Kalau you separuh manusia separuh babi pun I terima, tau.” That really motivated me.
And I’m really proud of my sisters. Two of them are teachers, and they told me they have many effeminate students. My youngest sister kata dia menangis when she knows her mak nyah students are bullied, because she thinks of me. So because of me, my sisters have become caring and supportive of mak nyah. My other sister had around six effeminate students whom she invited to her house for Hari Raya once.
Another sister said she has many friends like me, and showed me, “Ini tengok mereka tolong buat bulu kening.” (Laughs) Even my stepmother tells me she has a lot of mak nyah friends.
And even my nieces and nephews accept me. They call me “angah”, which is a neutral term — it can mean either uncle or auntie.
My sisters also keep newspaper clippings whenever I appear in the press, and they watch me on TV. And they even talk about it — they’re actually proud of me. They show these clippings off to their friends and colleagues.
So what aspects of your identity do you struggle with the most? Is it still your sexual identity?
Yes, paling mencabar is still being a mak nyah. You have to pay a very high price. You tak boleh lari kalau orang hendak kutuk or discriminate you. But I have learnt not to care about that anymore. I know I have a good job, family support, and I know I am a capable person. So why should I care about orang yang pandang rendah dekat I? That’s their problem.
I always say, tidak semua orang suka mak nyah, tapi tidak semua orang benci mak nyah. Kenapa kita hendak fokus kepada yang benci sahaja? Kenapa kita tidak fokus kepada yang suka?
Describe the kind of Malaysia you would like for yourself and future generations.
I want a Malaysia that respects all citizens — doesn’t matter who they are or what is their gender or sexuality. I want a society that accepts mak nyahs as they are. 
Guma says
Marvelously Marvelous! Go on and live up the colours of our lives.
Wilson says
I think we can all relate to this having going through it ourselves. Thanks for sharing. Best wishes and God Bless.
dominik says
I am very glad to see these things happening in Malaysia. I hope the general public will accept people like mak nyahs especially from certain sections of the public from the religious point of view.
As long as what they do is positive to society I have no objections.
KohJL says
Yes, let’s celebrate diversity.
Bryan says
Wonderful story. Such a wonderful family. 😀 yay, Malaysia rocks!
Hero says
Thanks Shanon for capturing so well that Malaysian-ness in the interview. Enjoyed reading it, the humour, humanity and all.
Josh says
Truly truly inspiring!
Fairy says
I too enjoyed this piece immensely! I loved how the entire article was well written and peppered with Malay words here and there. Poignant, touching, relevant, it’s got all the makings of a great piece. Congrats Shanon and Sulastri.
YS says
Well done! A good subject, insightful interview, and shows us true love – to accept the person as who he or she is!
azeidah says
I love this column.
Nadia says
This is such an inspiring piece … I believe one day we will all learn to respect each other regardless race, gender or sexuality 🙂
hamzah says
Well done Nut Graph!
Mitch says
Excellent interview. This is what it is all about … acceptance for who they are. Kudos to all.
Mona Sheikh Mahmud says
Shanon … thanks for writing this. I can hear Su’s voice, her soft laughter and imagine how she covers her mouth lightly when she giggles. Su is one of my mentors in understanding transgender issues, she truly is an inspiration. The one thing the article didn’t capture is the fact that Su and her team at PT have reached out to hundreds of mak nyahs; sheltered them, fed them and in many cases, nursed them on their death beds. Su and team gave the mak nyah community the respect and dignity they deserve.
In solidarity.
Jes says
I am so proud of you … and envy you at the same time … for having such supportive family…
As what you have wished for, I really hope that one day, the society will accept Mak Nyahs as they are … and I really hope our wish will come true … Until that day comes … I’m afraid we will still need to face discrimination of many types … and it only takes a Mak Nyah to know all these bitterness … unfortunately…
I too wish that these messages are read by the non-mak nyah out there, who constantly think lowly about us … hope this will change their point of view too …
Tommy says
This world was meant to have all the colours of the rainbow … too bad some people are colour blind and thus that they can only see black, white and the occasional grey … I hope Malaysia, of all the places in the world, can become the role model for all “unbiasness” and the acceptance of everyone regardless of sex, race, or any other form of discrimination.
Hello everyone, “Kalau you separuh manusia separuh babi pun I terima, tau.” =D
Umran Kadir says
Shanon, excellent, inspiring piece. Sulastri is fortunate to have a family that truly loves her for the person she is.
Fikri Roslan says
Very good piece of work. Congratulations to Shanon for bringing up this article and sharing with us the diversity of issues, sometimes away from the mainstream issues of our society. I will behave the same as Sulastri’s siblings. We cannot change God’s creation except pray that life will continue in a positive way.
Well done Shanon and my prayers to God for Sulastri to live happily and may God show her the right path.
Jun says
Fantastic! Best wishes and GOD bless.
nisha ts says
Congratulations to Shanon and Sulastri.
It’s a very touching and incredible story.
It’s time for Malaysians to accept diversity and stop discrimination and stigma towards LGBT people.
Hidup Mak Nyah! 🙂
Rafieqa says
It really made me cry. Thanks Kak Su, you really inspire me. Watch me in “Rona” Taman Budaya Jln Tun HS Lee KL. Shanon you are invited.
blogstarian says
Wwooooottt … this article makes me feel shamed with my race.
Danisha Mohd Tahir says
Very interesting and it shows how great can be regardless their identity. Syabas.
Selvi sw says
I’m so proud of Sulastri because of her courage in telling her life story. I knew her since 15 years ago and went through bad and good times with her. She is a very soft spoken and kind hearted person. Me myself as a woman I feel very comfortable being her friend, because of her inspiring attitude.Congratulations to Sulastri and her family that love her and support her for who she is.
Thumbs up to Shanon.
Roslan Osman says
Nice work Shanon and Su … interesting and motivated … proud of you guys!
Tim Scully says
It is truly inspiring! It was a privilege reading this and knowing Su personally. One day society will understand that being a mak nyah is not a lifestyle or by choice. I salute and respect all that they have been through.
Zashnain says
I believe everyone should be non-judgmental when it comes to someone’s sexuality and personality. A very motivating and empowering article which should set good examples for others to understand and embrace.
Nik says
This is totally insane. End of the world. Islam is a religion of respect, and by that please respect the fact that God creates Adam and Eve, men and women. It is very clear, nothing in between.
You will see collapse of society if mak nyahs are accepted in our community.
nisha ts says
I believe that Islam is a beautiful religion, the only problem is when we have fanatics who just want to implement their own interpretation on other people.
Who says that in Islam there’s only male and female? What about khunsa? Why is it in Iran where Islam is practiced widely, transsexuals are accepted?
Nadia Ali says
Oh that’s YOUR God Nik. My God created male, female, homosexuals, transsexuals, asexuals, black, white, brown etc and I believe we have to respect them all.
zik says
Hope The Nut Graph doesn’t play with what can or can’t be done especially with regards to Islam. You can play with other mak nyah from other religions but not in Islam! If you don’t understand please go and seek an explanation from Tok Guru Nik Aziz!
malaysia boleh says
Yup … Bolehland scores again, everyone is yelling hallelujah … mak nyah rules, sex is good business. Homos are good clients, that’s why they are around since Lut’s days
Go invite Elton John, sure you’ll have a better story than this mak nyah, celebrate the dumb ass story, make it great.
What’s next?
Val says
This is a very good article. Not many people are as brave and write about human issues. Many Malaysians are unable to accept that we are all humans and they tend to judge everyone – those closest to them are the ones get hurt the most! It is very comforting to know that Su has a family who accepts her just as she is.
I have to say some commenters here have very judgmental attitudes.
Look into your self first before you cast the first stone!
henli says
Nadia, God created rapists, paedophiles, so should we learn to respect them? Please behave like a Muslim if you are one. I know that you are all Islam liberal , and The Nut Graph is a big supporter. Please go back to the al-Quran. Mak nyah is wrong and haram. And here you are admiring him. This is shameful.
Islam liberal will not get you anywhere but hell.
henli says
Mak nyah is a shameful lifestyle. And most of them usually Malay Muslim. Please respect what God has blessed you with. You can choose to be normal if you want, if you have faith. I think they choose this lifestyle from encouragement from people and also family. This is shameful. This is not the West. Malaysia has culture and mak nyah is not accepted.
Abdul 'Afuw says
I’m very proud of Sulastri because of the courage she has shown in accepting herself for what she is and facing the people out there. We are what we are. Why pretend to be what we are not.
As for the commenter henli above, Sulastri is indeed respecting what God has blessed her with. She was born a mak nyah so she is accepting it. What’s more, she’s helping others to live their lives.
Dhanen Mahes says
1. Firstly, let me congratulate you, Shanon, on a very interesting interview. Also to Ms Sulastri for your brave work. I am happy that you found love and support from your family and hope that others might experience the same.
2. I’m glad that there are quite a number of positive responses in the comments section. I personally feel that all human beings should be accorded respect and rights, regardless of real or perceived ‘shortcomings’. I have followed to some extent the challenges faced by transsexuals, and people of alternative sexuality and the like in Malaysia, and although much more can be done, I am glad that there have been at least some positive changes.
3. In response to some readers who clearly felt that being a mak nyah is ‘wrong’, ‘bad’, etc. I would like to say that it is your personal right to agree or disagree with something, or form opinions as to right and wrong. However, just because someone acts in a manner contradictory to what we expect, does not mean that we can take away their rights, freedoms, or basic desire to be accepted. perhaps we can agree to disagree, and still give them the rights, freedoms and respect they deserve as citizens and human beings.
4. According to one commenter, transsexuals will bring about the end of the world, not nuclear weapons, global warming or superbugs. Also, society will collapse (we’re not sure how – perhaps due to the sudden inexplicable appearance of a super-massive black hole in the middle of society).
5. I think I have said my piece.
MalaysiaBoleh says
henli … we should not discriminate the mak nyah. If you’re soft, then you’re soft – God created them for a reason. I just hate the way this Shanon Shah seems to OK mak nyah who are sex traders. Dunno what religion is he practicing? If he’s a Muslim, maybe he can help his Muslim counterparts by explaining why a prostitute is given this glory, albeit he works for HIV/AIDS cause.
How about writing a good article on how religion can prevent AIDS?
Religions seems to not been in vogue now. Reckon one needs to be liberal Christian, conservative Muslim and what-not in this Nut world. Let’s be gay, it sure is chic and is liberal and serves equal rights.
Malaysia Boleh.
siew eng says
http://www.fact-archive.com/quotes/Muhammad
“God does not judge you according to your bodies and appearances, but He looks into your hearts and observes your deeds.” – Sahih al-Bukhari, 8:2.
A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that. – Bukhari 4:538
MalaysiaBoleh says
Siew Eng
Thank you very much.
These two said it all:
“God does not judge you according to your bodies and appearances, but He looks into your hearts and observes your deeds.” – Sahih al-Bukhari, 8:2.
Yup, you heart and your deeds. This phrase obviously refers to Islamic practices, so – if one is a prostitute, is he/she practicing good Muslim deeds?
A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that. – Bukhari 4:538
God is definitely Great. All merciful and ever forgiving … but, should we all do sin and hope for God’s forgiveness? Am sure a Muslim cannot just pray, do sin, seek forgiveness, pray &anddo sin again … surely there’s a guideline for your taubat? Right?
MalaysiaBoleh
heavenorhell says
Ya lah. Right or wrong according to God’s plan, no?
If God tell us it’s right, then it’s right,no? If God tells us it’s wrong then it’s wrong ,no?
So if we think it’s wrong, then we don’t practice it la. And PRAY la to your God to FORGIVE them for they do not know what they do as we also FORGIVE them la. Let GOD deal with them as He sees fit when their time comes for judgment. God ALONE will decide to forgive or otherwise, no. And if He chooses to forgive them, we should accept it too and not feel DISAPPOINTED or ANGRY or JEALOUS. Live our Lives as we think the Almighty (praise be to Him) would want us to live. PRAY for the rest. Keep our actions to ourselves lest we are guilty of a GREATER sin.
roastpork says
Reading these comments I realize I’ve been really wrong about the Large Hadron Collider destroying the world. Now I know it’s going to happen because men dress up like women.
Karcy says
For those of you who laugh at the guy who said ‘end of the world’, it is believed by many Muslims that one of the signs of the end of the world is that men will marry men and women will marry women. You can find out more of this if you look up Islamic eschatology on wikipedia.
Thus far, I am glad that the discussion regarding Sulastri, even the harsher ones, have not forgotten one thing: that she is a human being and she deserves to be respected as one. Too often, they are not even treated as human beings, but as cartoons and caricatures.
As for those from religious background, the question that ought to be asked is: would not someone who has lived this life not know how much religious disdain is there? and would not they have suffered much through it already? Who wants this kind of life, anyway?
The interview has only done one thing, after all: it has simply revealed mak nyahs as what they are — human beings.
anotherNik says
This is a great article and I applaud Shanon for doing it. And I really admire Sulastri who not only found courage to live her life the way she wants to but devotes herself to helping others. I am glad that most of the comments are positive and I hope the ones who are negative will one day see the light and stop judging others by their appearance.
Jes says
It is ironic to see how people are fighting over their knowledge (or rather their own understanding) on rReligion’… Some even see it as a ‘racial’ issue…
Please… let’s not be hypocrites about it… Ask yourself deep down… are you really concerned about the ‘race’ or it’s just your lack of ability to see the world (or human race for this matter) as ONE…
As for the comparison between a ‘rapist’ and a ‘mak nyah’… sounds to me like comparing an ‘apple’ and an ‘orange’… One is the desire for performing an act while the latter is an inborn character which a person carries with him/her the whole time.
I, for one, believe in God… And I believe that ONLY God can judge me… I repeat… NO ONE ELSE but God is allowed to judge me.
Therefore to all my sisters out there, don’t allow the others to tell you otherwise. Never allow anyone to bring you down and tear you apart. Remember to believe in yourself, live the right way, the best that you know how… leave the rest to God…
Please people, I urge you to be less judgmental… It is everybody’s responsibility to make this world a better place to live… and one of the most essential ways is to judge less… Let’s give more LOVE and HUMANITY to this planet earth and its human race.
Jes says
P/S: All my thoughts are gathered from a song by John Lennon call “Imagine”… For those who do not know this song … have a listen to it and you’ll know what I mean …
Nik says
To Nadia Ali, you are crediting God for what [God] does not create. [God] only creates men, women, and for some reason during the foetus development, a hermaphrodite or also known as khunsa.
However. you have to know that in each human being, he/she is instilled within him [or her] the “naluri” of a man or a woman, respectively. I checked through a few websites of fatwas regarding khunsa. They are defined as a person who are either 1) born with both male and female sexual reproductive organs, or 2) born without any of male or female organs, just an opening which is the anus. And they are accepted as normal human beings in Islam, just that they have to see an andrologist or gynaecologist.
Several examinations and investigations will be done to decide which organ is the dominant one. They will be treated surgically and medically. Surgical operation is done to remove one organ, or to construct a new one (if they had none). This will be followed up by hormonal treatment basically to increase their sexual function up to that of a normal male or female. That’s like the lamest explanation that I can offer.
However, these maknyahs that offer themselves as prostitutes, and deliberately underwent operation to remove the only organ they have, and to construct a new organ that they didn’t previously have…come on, would you dare say that Islam accepts this? I bet most of the religions in the world won’t.
I must protect what I think is probably collapsing once we accept homosexuals, transsexuals, or prostitutes as part of the community – the community and later human civilisation.
Ritchie says
Having viewed some of the responses here, it is not surprising to note that this topic evokes strong feelings and reactions, both from religious and cultural perspectives.
There are a few assumptions readers have drawn, that the writer and Shanon are proponents of “mak-yah” lifestyle. I am uncertain of that, but there is a good attempt to find out about Shanon’s world and the journey that unfolds.
I do find the article intriguing and at the same time it does examine the childhood, fears and relationships with family, relatives and society. Nevertheless, sensitivity is not synonymous with objectivity; especially when selective assertions and worldviews are presented and structured as narrative.
For example, the notion that transsexuals are “born” that way or that society should not judge them but accept them is in itself a selective worldview. All individuals make judgments, those judgments may not be factual – what needs to be examined is whether it is based on objective criteria.
Sexology researchers like Masters & Johnson have for years clarified that there is no quantitative evidence either on a biological or neurological aspect to indicate that homosexuals or transsexuals are genetically “born” that way.
Coupled with such scientific findings and historical data, I find it premature for transsexuals and those who support and sanction the gender-orientation worldview to castigate those who do not support it as “religious fanatics’, un-accepting, unloving, discriminating and self-imposed judges.
Many have been quick to ascribe “mak-nyahs” being who they are because “God created them that way”. Depending which God or gods one’s reference point is, there is a general consensus among both Muslims and well as Christians that God created Adam and Eve as male and female, and that there is no evidence in either the Quran or the Bible to attribute God being the creator or author of a varied mainstream of sexual orientations.
It would be good to re-examine popular assumptions and the pivotal role sexuality and gender has in our society. All inclusive philosophies can only come at the cost of truth.
Life is not a series of sequences where you awake to nothingness but a journey where choices, decisions and conviction separate the captive from those who encounter truth. To be a “mak nyah” or a homosexual is in my opinion a choice, and like all choices it has its conclusion.
hj.eddy rahman/kak long says
Su, abg Eddy dah bekerjasama dgn Su sejak 90an lagi, you are the greatest. Keep up with your good work biar apa org nak kata lantaklah, kita tak minta makan dgn dia org. I know u can do the the best for Mak Nyah dan kerja-kerja HIV and AIDS. Ucapan the best to Su dari hati abg Eddy.
sjj says
It’s good to have positive activities to support each other. Good job!!